Stuck in the circuit
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northants
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, I went up with a different instructor today, and explained to him beforehand that I was getting frustrated and didn't really know what it was I needed to improve on, so we had a good run through the circuit in the briefing, talked through what I thought I was getting wrong and how to fix them, and proceeded to do pretty much the best landings I've done.
Upshot being that he thinks that if the wind is calm enough next weekend (15kt crosswind today) then he would hope to be able to get me solo, and if it's windy we'll go off and do a navex which he's given me a route to prepare for. So definitely feel more positive about the whole thing having someone who seems to be actively managing things better!
Upshot being that he thinks that if the wind is calm enough next weekend (15kt crosswind today) then he would hope to be able to get me solo, and if it's windy we'll go off and do a navex which he's given me a route to prepare for. So definitely feel more positive about the whole thing having someone who seems to be actively managing things better!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Retford, UK
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That just about sums up gliding for me too. When I got good enough to fly the club 'hot' ships I would book to fly at say 1PM (you were only allowed 1 hr max unless on a task), spend all morning sitting on the winch/repairing cables/DI'ing said hot ship when one of the 'club fathers' would come along at 12.45, take your ship, do some local soaring for two hours, land and then bugger off. Used to make me spit blood and was the real reason I packed in TBH, but gliding itself is the sport of kings.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, club gliding means for the majority of pilots flying club aircraft, much like SEP flying I imagine (I may of course be wrong). Glider owners actually tend to be quite good at taking their share of duties. Because they usually want a hand rigging their gliders...Gliding clubs are all self help, there's a rota for winch driving/aerotowing, cable retrieve, duty pilot, duty this that and the other. Some people think that rotas are for other members though and they can just turn up, fly and go home. Every gliding club has them. Most members of most clubs accept this, although not gladly of course. I, having more of a sense of right and wrong and of people taking the p*** and being a well built chap who used to box, tended to tell them what I thought.....
The strangest thing was that other members who would mumble into their beer at the clubhouse complaining quietly never liked it if I gave friendly and much needed advice to people. You can't please some folk.
The strangest thing was that other members who would mumble into their beer at the clubhouse complaining quietly never liked it if I gave friendly and much needed advice to people. You can't please some folk.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are many people who expect a "service" and are willing to pay a set price for it. I think this is reasonable. You go to a restaurant; you are not expecting to have to help out in the kitchen.
I suspect quite a few turn up at a gliding club, not realising the scene is like that.
Example: I windsurf, on the sea. There is a "community" but basically you can do it all on your own (on the sea, anyway). Up the road is a huge lake and seeing loads of boating etc there I thought I will give it a try, and drove there to enquire. I was sent off to a snotty sailing club manager who explained that nobody was allowed to be a member unless they helped with certain duties, and would be evicted if they missed 3+ duty assignments.
He also added that I "did not have big enough t*ts" at which point I got the message
I suspect quite a few turn up at a gliding club, not realising the scene is like that.
Example: I windsurf, on the sea. There is a "community" but basically you can do it all on your own (on the sea, anyway). Up the road is a huge lake and seeing loads of boating etc there I thought I will give it a try, and drove there to enquire. I was sent off to a snotty sailing club manager who explained that nobody was allowed to be a member unless they helped with certain duties, and would be evicted if they missed 3+ duty assignments.
He also added that I "did not have big enough t*ts" at which point I got the message
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 68
Posts: 3,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People might turn up at a gliding club not realising the 'scene' is like that but after several years at same gliding club you would have thought the penny would have dropped...
You don't pay for any service at a gliding club other than membership and flying fees, everything is voluntary, but not voluntary as in 'I may be charitable and volunteer to be duty pilot.'
You don't pay for any service at a gliding club other than membership and flying fees, everything is voluntary, but not voluntary as in 'I may be charitable and volunteer to be duty pilot.'
Surely this is the difference between a "club" and a "school".
I'm currently doing some training with a school, I turn up, pre-flight the aeroplane, fly with an instructor wearing a uniform, park it at the end, and pay.
I also am a longstanding member of a true flying club - I help out with jobs around the airfield, take time to introduce members, even occasionally get a spade out and fill in the rabbit holes in the runway.
Strangely enough, the first costs a shedload more money, whilst the latter is a lot more fun in the end, I have a lot more friends there, and money notwithstanding I'll stay with them far far longer. But we pretty much all still need a flying school occasionally.
G
I'm currently doing some training with a school, I turn up, pre-flight the aeroplane, fly with an instructor wearing a uniform, park it at the end, and pay.
I also am a longstanding member of a true flying club - I help out with jobs around the airfield, take time to introduce members, even occasionally get a spade out and fill in the rabbit holes in the runway.
Strangely enough, the first costs a shedload more money, whilst the latter is a lot more fun in the end, I have a lot more friends there, and money notwithstanding I'll stay with them far far longer. But we pretty much all still need a flying school occasionally.
G
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chester
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juno78 - Standby ...I'll be back to reply to you in just a mo!
IO540 - "did not have big enough t*ts"
I actually think you have big tits ... well you certainly act like one for putting a statement like this ...
"And if the gurl has any brains and thinks you are a commercial pilot she will run a mile because they are mostly unfaithful."
... mostly unfaithful ... not all pilots are b*stards. My husband is an airline pilot and I think that you have just made a huge sweeping statement. So just watch it Mr!
However i'm in a good mood today and so I will forgive you for your pompous opinionated statement.
Juno78 - It took me around 30 hours so do not be disheartened by 'sky-gods' who can solo in under 10 hours (like my hubby
). I gained my PPL at OFT (Florida) in 2006. I started my PPL trainning in a C-152 
but just didn't get on with them. My landings were an issue, I was flaring either too high or too low. It got to the point that my instructor was unsure of what to do with me, so we used to fly off to quieter airfields to practice circuits there. I remember flying one day and I felt pretty unhappy about how unstable the aircraft felt as it was a gusty day and I had almost given up with the whole idea of trying to gain my licence. I told my instructor that I wanted to see if I felt happier in the Cadet (PA-28). I was glad that I asked to change aircraft because within 4 hours of changing I had gone solo. The fact that I also had 7 different instructors didn't help me either. In hindsight I now wish that i'd got my licence in UK ... but that's another story.
I remember my first lesson in USA and I did not enjoy it. I remember feeling unhappy about how bumpy it was in the air. I had previous flying experience of flying with instructors and experienced pilots in the UK, but I the idea of having to fly the aircraft on my own was not a happy one. I think that fact that I had set out on my goal of gaining my PPL in a short space of time made me feel really pressurised.
When you fly your circuits do you make sure that you fly accurate headings, have correct power settings and the correct heights? I know that sometimes it can be hard to do this bang on every time, but if you can get these as near to 'bang on' as possible your instructor might feel happier about letting you go. When I was learning to fly someone who I knew flew with had an instructor who didn't seem that comfortable with flying herself, and he felt that because she was nervous she was over-demanding. Who knows? He asked to fly with a different instructor and he solo'd shortly after this.
I've flown with instructors who unless you fly the circuit 'bang on' aren't happy to let you go. But as someone else on this thread pointed out, you don't have to do perfect circuits to be sent solo, just safe ones. You can go on to polish your circuits to perfection afterwards ... if you want! From talking to instructors (and my hubby who has also instructed) they just want to see 3 good circuits before sending you solo.
I think that if I was you i'd look into flying from Tollerton, but then i'm biased as i'm from Nottingham originally. I have also flown (prior to my PPL) with friends from there. It seems like a lovely airfield and they do have a warrior there. I don't think that flying from East Mids is a good idea because of the fact that they handle commercial traffic and if you are asked to hold for it, it will be eating into your circuit time ££££££
It's a shame that you aren't nearer as you could come with me as I fly regularly.
Keep us posted and feel free to PM me
IO540 - "did not have big enough t*ts"
I actually think you have big tits ... well you certainly act like one for putting a statement like this ...
"And if the gurl has any brains and thinks you are a commercial pilot she will run a mile because they are mostly unfaithful."
... mostly unfaithful ... not all pilots are b*stards. My husband is an airline pilot and I think that you have just made a huge sweeping statement. So just watch it Mr!
However i'm in a good mood today and so I will forgive you for your pompous opinionated statement. Juno78 - It took me around 30 hours so do not be disheartened by 'sky-gods' who can solo in under 10 hours (like my hubby
). I gained my PPL at OFT (Florida) in 2006. I started my PPL trainning in a C-152 but just didn't get on with them. My landings were an issue, I was flaring either too high or too low. It got to the point that my instructor was unsure of what to do with me, so we used to fly off to quieter airfields to practice circuits there. I remember flying one day and I felt pretty unhappy about how unstable the aircraft felt as it was a gusty day and I had almost given up with the whole idea of trying to gain my licence. I told my instructor that I wanted to see if I felt happier in the Cadet (PA-28). I was glad that I asked to change aircraft because within 4 hours of changing I had gone solo. The fact that I also had 7 different instructors didn't help me either. In hindsight I now wish that i'd got my licence in UK ... but that's another story.I remember my first lesson in USA and I did not enjoy it. I remember feeling unhappy about how bumpy it was in the air. I had previous flying experience of flying with instructors and experienced pilots in the UK, but I the idea of having to fly the aircraft on my own was not a happy one. I think that fact that I had set out on my goal of gaining my PPL in a short space of time made me feel really pressurised.
When you fly your circuits do you make sure that you fly accurate headings, have correct power settings and the correct heights? I know that sometimes it can be hard to do this bang on every time, but if you can get these as near to 'bang on' as possible your instructor might feel happier about letting you go. When I was learning to fly someone who I knew flew with had an instructor who didn't seem that comfortable with flying herself, and he felt that because she was nervous she was over-demanding. Who knows? He asked to fly with a different instructor and he solo'd shortly after this.
I've flown with instructors who unless you fly the circuit 'bang on' aren't happy to let you go. But as someone else on this thread pointed out, you don't have to do perfect circuits to be sent solo, just safe ones. You can go on to polish your circuits to perfection afterwards ... if you want! From talking to instructors (and my hubby who has also instructed) they just want to see 3 good circuits before sending you solo.
I think that if I was you i'd look into flying from Tollerton, but then i'm biased as i'm from Nottingham originally. I have also flown (prior to my PPL) with friends from there. It seems like a lovely airfield and they do have a warrior there. I don't think that flying from East Mids is a good idea because of the fact that they handle commercial traffic and if you are asked to hold for it, it will be eating into your circuit time ££££££
It's a shame that you aren't nearer as you could come with me as I fly regularly.
Keep us posted and feel free to PM me
Assuming all of the basic exercises have been taught correctly and the student is up to standard, the only new thing that you are trying to learn in the circuit is the take off and landing. In most cases it is only the landing you are trying to perfect.
16 hours implies a more fundamental problem than just the landing and perhaps it is time to go back to some of the basic exercises to ensure that the basic skills are up to speed. If they are not, then progress will be slow.
Circuit flying is a critical phase and having more concentrated lessons would be agood idea to try get past this hurdle.
I have flown with numerous students in a similar position and usually find that watching one circuit tells all. In most cases the problem is basic flying skills that need to be or improved, or have not been taught properly. This is best done away from the circuit.
Try flying with another instructor.
16 hours implies a more fundamental problem than just the landing and perhaps it is time to go back to some of the basic exercises to ensure that the basic skills are up to speed. If they are not, then progress will be slow.
Circuit flying is a critical phase and having more concentrated lessons would be agood idea to try get past this hurdle.
I have flown with numerous students in a similar position and usually find that watching one circuit tells all. In most cases the problem is basic flying skills that need to be or improved, or have not been taught properly. This is best done away from the circuit.
Try flying with another instructor.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northants
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi again everyone,
Well, went for a second lesson with the new instructor today, and he said at the start that as the wind was almost calm he wanted to get me to solo today, and that he basically just needed to see me do three good circuits first. So we went up and did a couple, which seemed to go fine, and after the second landing he took control and started slowing us down - at which point I though "gosh, I must be doing something pretty wrong!" but no, he said he was going to let me go up on my own. Woooooo!
He jumped out and I carried on by myself, and all absolutely fine apart from a rain shower that I could see heading my way while on downwind, and that I met just as I was turning base, but I was clear of it again by the time I got set up on final. Landing wasn't the softest I've ever done but it certainly wasn't particularly ropey. On mentioning the rain my instructor said that was why he'd let me out after two circuits because he'd been able to see the rain coming and wanted to give me a chance to go up before it got to us properly!
So very happy today, and thanks to everyone for your advice - clearly changing instructor was just the thing! Actually looking forward to more circuits now I can do them by myself
(Incidentally, although I noticed it climbed slightly quicker without two on board, it didn't seem to feel any different otherwise - quite relieved about that!)
Well, went for a second lesson with the new instructor today, and he said at the start that as the wind was almost calm he wanted to get me to solo today, and that he basically just needed to see me do three good circuits first. So we went up and did a couple, which seemed to go fine, and after the second landing he took control and started slowing us down - at which point I though "gosh, I must be doing something pretty wrong!" but no, he said he was going to let me go up on my own. Woooooo!
He jumped out and I carried on by myself, and all absolutely fine apart from a rain shower that I could see heading my way while on downwind, and that I met just as I was turning base, but I was clear of it again by the time I got set up on final. Landing wasn't the softest I've ever done but it certainly wasn't particularly ropey. On mentioning the rain my instructor said that was why he'd let me out after two circuits because he'd been able to see the rain coming and wanted to give me a chance to go up before it got to us properly!
So very happy today, and thanks to everyone for your advice - clearly changing instructor was just the thing! Actually looking forward to more circuits now I can do them by myself
(Incidentally, although I noticed it climbed slightly quicker without two on board, it didn't seem to feel any different otherwise - quite relieved about that!)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done Juno! That is one flight and one day you will forever recall.
Hats off to your instructor as well, he really does seem to have your interests at heart.
Cheers,
Neppie
Hats off to your instructor as well, he really does seem to have your interests at heart.
Cheers,
Neppie
If we can be allowed to go off-topic this far: I do remember the excitement of my first solo - and of the next, less exciting though, when checked out on other types of craft - well done, and keep up the good memory - and do say thanks to that instructor. Blue skies now!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Glasgow, UK
Age: 50
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I noticed it climbed slightly quicker
Congrats anyway
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SE England
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also discovered that planes go up much faster when the (in my case "sturdily built" 
) instructor gets out. On my first solo the thing positively leapt off the ground, and my friend who was waiting near the far end of the runway (having watched the preceding half an hour of circuits in the freezing depths of winter) missed his shot of me leaving the ground alone for the first time, because I was already sailing over his head. 
) instructor gets out. On my first solo the thing positively leapt off the ground, and my friend who was waiting near the far end of the runway (having watched the preceding half an hour of circuits in the freezing depths of winter) missed his shot of me leaving the ground alone for the first time, because I was already sailing over his head.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northants
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone Also really pleased my husband was there because he doesn't always come along to the airfield. He's not very keen on flying at all (we didn't get on a plane together at all for the first two years we were together cos he really hated it at the time) but he said he'd consider getting in the Robin with me after watching me go round by myself
Also really pleased my husband was there because he doesn't always come along to the airfield. He's not very keen on flying at all (we didn't get on a plane together at all for the first two years we were together cos he really hated it at the time) but he said he'd consider getting in the Robin with me after watching me go round by myself