bose-x is obsolete ...

[Fuji Abound]

Nope. Working.

Eight to ten hours is a normal leg.

You flying airships these days?

I wouldnt have thought you need the Boses in one of those.

[The Heff]

ANR headsets may be great for commercial and/or IFR flying; but for student and low-hour private pilots I reckon these are better value.

What I like most is that one can also buy a cotton pad for the headband, which makes it a helluva lot more comfortable. I've never had any compatibility issues with other headsets, it does the job and they're reasonably priced.

To be honest, I feel that Bose-X and Sennheiser, etc, are over-engineered for weekend VFR flying.

(Donning helmet and standing by for incoming!)

[IO540]

I would fully agree that if you are flying around a bunch of chimps who sit, stand, spill beer on the headset, and then use the cable from it to help themselves down from the footsteps then a $100 headset is the way to go.

Similarly if you fly a PA28, where everybody has to climb in over the seats, thus standing on any headsets lying on the seats.

Which is why the flight training business uses crap headsets.

When I was training, one even had pleasure flight (oops I meant to say "trial lesson") punters stealing the headsets Not sure what they could do with them; maybe they got a tenner for it down the pub?

But if you look after your kit, there is no contest.

I do explain to passengers fairly carefully that the headsets they will be wearing are "extremely expensive" and I show them how to insert and withdraw the little plastic bose plugs, etc. It seems to work. But on the school/club scene they would not last 5 minutes.

[SNS3Guppy]

You flying airships these days?

No, something a tad faster.

I have had a couple of chances to go fly an airship, before. I'd like to have done it for a year, just to have experienced the lifestyle and the job. Perhaps even just to say I did it. The pay wasn't enough to get by, and the job required 330 or more days on the road each year. Easy enough if one's single, but at the time, I wasn't.

Our trips presently are often long enough to require two crews on board, to be legal. Duty days get long, too. I've got a 26 hour duty day coming up in a few days, and it's not uncommon to deadhead ten hours into a trip...before I actually go to work. I was at twelve hours a few days ago by the time we pushed back...and that's the day just getting started. Add to that some long legs with lengthy flight hours, and a headset that is comfortable for extended periods is an absolute must.

ANR headsets may be great for commercial and/or IFR flying; but for student and low-hour private pilots I reckon these are better value.

I used the Flightcom 4DX for a number of years, along with other similar headsets, in all kinds of equipment. I used them regularly for large, four-engine radial powered airplanes...which are extremely loud, inside. (I measured the noise level in the 4Y once, then took the db meter to the edge of the runway, where I stood while two F-16's departed in full afterburner. The 4Y was louder, inside).

With any of the passive David-Clark type headsets (such as the Flightcom), I install the Oregon Aero hush kits, which are high-density foam for the earcups, thick memory-foam earseals, and a wide, sheepskin and wool headband. These become comfortable and quiet, and in the PB4Y-2, I wore them with EAR foam earplugs, as well. I tried some of the various noise-cancelling active ANR headsets, but they couldn't keep up, especially at high power settings, with the extreme noise in the cockpit. The passive headsets worked very well. The one thing that the noise-reduction headsets did do (such as Lightspeed, Bose, etc), was improve communications at lower power settings, when the headsets could actually keep up.

I've also used the Oregon Aero hush kits in my helmet, which makes it a lot quieter and more comfortable. I don't use ANR in the helmet at all, and where the helmet only gets used with turbine equipment, it doesn't need anything else. I'd still prefer to be able to hear the airplane, which I couldn't do if the helmet were any quieter.

Stock DC-style helmets such as the Flight Com tend to cause hot spots on my head and they make my jaws ache after an hour or three. I've worn them on long days with long flights of 11+ hours, and I feel like my head has been on a blacksmith's vise after some time. When I wore the Flightcom's and David Clarks regularly, I always carried aspirin or ibuprophen in my flight suit, because it was needed.

Last year I did a lot of light airplane flying, and I mostly used the Bose X for that. It improved comfort and communications in the cockpit enough that I'd say it's well worth the cost.

That said, I bought mine on ebay for two thirds the price, then promptly took it to the middle east where it sat in very hot cockpits, got covered in find sand, and generally abused, without the least complaint.

I learned to fly in airplanes without electrical systems or radios, and often flew without any hearing protection. My first flying job was ag work, and we used wwII headsets with the fiberglass insulation and flocking falling out...old,worn headsets. I still have my original telex headset, the first one I bought, with huge microphone, and big, square earcups. It's been around for some time, and the old earseals are worthless, but it still works like it did when it was new. I've had in-ear professional headsets, various Plantronics units, Lightspeeds, many of the basic GA style David Clark units from DC, Flightcom, Sigtronics, Softcom, etc. Of them all, the Bose have proven the best, the most durable, and have provided the best service, by far.

In my opinion, whether one is flying a 747 internationally, flying air attack over forest fires, or enjoying a peaceful weekend flight to see the leaves changing color in the fall, a good-quality headset is well worth the price. The days of going without a headset are past, for the most part, and the headset should be considered an investment in a piece of quality communications equipment. Spending six hundred dollars or more on a headset should be a no-brainer. One buys proper training, one buys proper equipment, one spends a small fortune to rent an airplane for an afternoon...a single outlay of cash or credit for a quality headset is a natural choice that's money well spent....even for the private pilot who wants nothing more than to enjoy the flight as best he or she can.

In that case, getting a descent headset like a Bose is all the more important. Go try one, and you'll understand why.

I would fully agree that if you are flying around a bunch of chimps who sit, stand, spill beer on the headset, and then use the cable from it to help themselves down from the footsteps then a $100 headset is the way to go.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand that it's tongue-in-cheek, but if one is operating in an environment that's going to be abusive, all the more reason to invest in a quality headset that can take it. My Bose X has held up to some fairly rough conditions, all over the world, better than most any other headset I've tried. It's also a lot more comfortable. Better yet, if I do manage to wear it out, fora few dollars, Bose will refurbish it as good as new. It's seen service in everything from Cessna 210's to King Air's to Learjets to 747's...and is still going strong. It's been frozen, baked, tossed, dropped, banged, rained on, snowed on, beaten and abused, and it's still good to go.

[Fuji Abound]

No, something a tad faster.

Whatever.

[IO540]

Better yet, if I do manage to wear it out, fora few dollars, Bose will refurbish it as good as new.

Not here in the UK All the great Bose U.S. warranties are comprehensively hand-washed over here. For example their free replacement of the thousands of partly duff mikes (sold c. 2002/3) was not implemented here.

The aircraft powered bose-x has a flimsy plastic plug, made by Lemo who deliberately do not sell this specific pin configuration within their normal circular connector range, so one cannot get just the plug, and the only way to fix a broken plug (if epoxy doesn't do it) is to buy a whole new bose-x mike + cable assembly for £135 (last time I did it). I used to think that Bose imposed this restrictive practice on Lemo in return for the business, but Lemo have done the same deal with Lightspeed whose Zulu is available in a bose-compatible aircraft powered version.

Other than the plug, the bose is reasonably robust but no way will it outlast a real Russian combine harvester (a David Clarke).

[Pianorak]

ANR headsets may be great for commercial and/or IFR flying; but for student and low-hour private pilots I reckon these are better value.

You may well be right - but it’s a bit like saying that any old joanna is good enough for little Wayne to start learning the piano, instead of getting him a half-decent Steinway or even Yamaha. Little Wayne obviously soon stops piano lessons and wants a drum kit and proceeds to drive the neighbours insane.

[Shunter]

but for student and low-hour private pilots I reckon these are better value.

I see you've never tried Bose headsets...

I picked up a second hand pair a few years ago and would never go back. Outstanding audio quality, don't clamp your head like a vice.... 2hrs or 20mins, the difference is noticeable as soon as you put them on.

A chap I used to work with got his PPL this year. He took my evangelism with a pinch of salt considering the retail price, then he also got a 2nd hand pair and will never go back.

I don't think they're worth the retail price, but I do think they are the best money can buy. If the price is right it's money well spent. Commercial/IFR has little to do with it except for the comfort factor; you'll get just as much value from the audio quality in a noisy SEP on a busy weekend with London Info than you will on a quiet radar frequency dropping onto an ILS in the soup.

[The Heff]

Originally Posted by Shunter

I see you've never tried Bose headsets

Not completely accurate, I'm afraid.

They had a mock-up at the Aero Expo in Wycombe, last year; and the fellow was simulating engine noise from various different airfraft types (SEP, MEP and corporate jet, if I recall correctly). For the short time that I was wearing them, I found the Bose-X to be comfortable and I was impressed with the ability of the headset to eliminate the "background" noise.

However, in all honesty I balked at the price. I dare say that compared to my Flightcom 4DX the Bose-X is more technologically advanced, more likely to prevent future loss-of-hearing from flying usual club aircraft and maybe a little bit more comfortable on longer flights; but the Flightcom 4DX is more cost-effective, as they perform the same job to an acceptable standard at a much reduced price.

Its why I advocate them to students and low-hour PPLs. Learning to fly is expensive enough without factoring in the cost of expensive headsets; but then again it always will be a personal choice.

[W2k]

ANR headsets may be great for commercial and/or IFR flying; but for student and low-hour private pilots I reckon these are better value.

Being a low-hour PPL I would respectfully disagree. While cheap headsets certainly "do the job", my experience going from non-ANR Peltors to Zulus (which I bought used for about 50% of retail price) was that they helped me relax more, removing pretty much all the annoying noises from the cockpit. Both as a student and a beginner PPL I find that anything which reduces my percieved workload while flying is a blessing, no matter how small

Now, if you're only flying occasionally then the cost of a Bose-X or Zulu may seem disproportionately large. The solution for that is to do what I did, buy a used pair. It didn't really take me long to find Zulus for sale and they are really durable - any excessive wear or damage should be serious enough as to be obvious at first glance.

[IO540]

I found the Bose-X to be comfortable and I was impressed with the ability of the headset to eliminate the "background" noise.

However, in all honesty I balked at the price.

That's a reasonable POV but value for money is absolutely nothing to do with the performance/comfort argument

To a lot of pilots, the price is almost immaterial. They are buying a new Cirrus for... how much are they now? Even I have four bose-x headsets; two came with the plane, but I bought two even before I bought the TB20 for myself and my then GF, because I used to self fly hire (PA28s) and could not stand the crap headsets at the school.

The used Bose headset also fetches a reasonable amount on Ebay, while the others are mostly almost worthless.

And if the additional cost is that important, you probably don't fly much anyway; perhaps sticking to local flights where the radio may be almost irrelevant. A large chunk of GA falls into that category.

The loss of hearing / clarity argument is evidently wasted on many pilots (who seem content with flying around with radio installations which would literally not have been acceptable in the Battle of Britain) but it becomes relevant as one flies further afield (abroad) where ATC English is not so good, and if (or as) one's hearing gets worse with age.

The Bose is hugely overpriced for what you get in terms of material and manufacturing cost (I design and make electronic products) but that's their choice... I too sell (industrial) products for £200 which cost £30 to make, and that is really quite normal in business.

[RTN11]

Does the ANR only cancel out the noice inside the cockpit, or can it also reduce radio static?

At my school I fly 2 aircraft which have terrible radios, with a lot of static just on the intercom. Would the Bose A or X reduce this? If so it's probably worth a punt.

[IO540]

Does the ANR only cancel out the noice inside the cockpit, or can it also reduce radio static?

Only the former.

"Radio static" is just a crap radio, or a crap intercom, or both.

At my school I fly 2 aircraft which have terrible radios, with a lot of static just on the intercom. Would the Bose A or X reduce this? If so it's probably worth a punt.

A good headset will always help you hear properly though, and will save your hearing too. Obviously I can't tell you what you can or can't afford, but if you e.g. plan to later join a syndicate (which, apart from outright ownership, is generally the only way to go long-term, since rental is usually an expensive way to fly garbage) then a decent headset will really stand out.

Plus they are much more comfy

I have been told by a few people I know well that while the bose-x and the LS Zulu are comparable, the Bose A20 is well above anything else. I have just ordered one (aircraft powered but without the Bluetooth gimmick) from the USA; some firms out there are offering a $400 trade-in on a bose-x which is more than one would get on Ebay.

One interesting thing about the A20 is that for $49 you can convert the aircraft powered (single Lemo plug) version into the standard twin jacks, which is useful if one wants to use such a headset in somebody else's plane. With the old X the only way to do this was to change the whole mike+cable assembly which was about £140, years ago.

[RTN11]

I thought that would be the case. My David Clark cancels out cockpit noise well enough for me, it's just the duff intercom that gets on my nerves.

[tmmorris]

Originally Posted by pianorak

You may well be right - but it’s a bit like saying that any old joanna is good enough for little Wayne to start learning the piano, instead of getting him a half-decent Steinway or even Yamaha.

Hmm. I think the Bose-X is a Steinway Model D. Way over the top unless you plan to use it every day to a professional standard.

I think comfort and noise reduction are being conflated. My Sennheiser headset is way more comfortable (particularly with the gel ear seals) that my old cheap Flightcom one. The latter clamped horribly and gave me a headache after an hour. But it's only a bit more expensive - whereas the Bose-X is in a different league. (I'd say it's... like an old Welmar upright, or perhaps a new Yamaha though they are nothing like as civilised.)

Of course if you are buying a Cirrus it's trivial. But for those of us renting at £60-90 an hour wet, the Bose is indeed rather on the pricey side...

Tim

[IO540]

But for those of us renting at £60-90 an hour wet, the Bose is indeed rather on the pricey side...

But surely then you must have loads of money left over... a bit like people living in Wales, Liverpool, etc

[Cows getting bigger]

I bought a Bose A20 at Oshkosh and find it noticeably superior to the Bose X (I have had Bose X for about 5 years). I've yet to play with the Bluetooth etc. Is it really worth $1100? Probably not. But in the same breath is a 10 year old PA28 with poor paint and tattered trim worth $100,000?