Fly by night
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Fly by night
Well, the nights have drawn in and if you want to carry on flying after 16.30 you had better get your night rating up to scratch.
Every year the wife expresses her doubts about me flying a single in the dark.
What do you guys think?
I always quote a previous instructor...
"If you are attempting an engine out landing in the dark in a single, when at 100 ft turn the landing light on and if you don't like what you see then turn it off"
Doesn't seem to instill a lot of confidence with the missus!
Every year the wife expresses her doubts about me flying a single in the dark.
What do you guys think?
I always quote a previous instructor...
"If you are attempting an engine out landing in the dark in a single, when at 100 ft turn the landing light on and if you don't like what you see then turn it off"
Doesn't seem to instill a lot of confidence with the missus!
Guest
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Always carry as much fuel as you can (lots of alternate fields closed at night), check for carb. ice more frequently, more thorough preflight check than usual, then the engine won't stop anyway. And if it does, tough. (That's what I tell my students anyway). I don't think there's any reason the engine should stop more readily at night and if you take care of the above you've covered the main reasons before you start.
To my mind the sheer pleasure of night flying far outweighs any potential risk.
Cheers DB6
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 20 November 2000).]
To my mind the sheer pleasure of night flying far outweighs any potential risk.
Cheers DB6
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 20 November 2000).]
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I'm with DB6, it's too much fun and too much beautiful scenery to worry too much about it. The wings don't know it's dark, and the engine is always dark!
Mind you, we're coastal and the beach is landable for about 100nm North...also the weather is always either perfect or very cloudy at night.
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Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
Mind you, we're coastal and the beach is landable for about 100nm North...also the weather is always either perfect or very cloudy at night.
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Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.
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ACARS, I knew someone would say that ! I have to admit to getting a little casual about preflights, flying as I do sometimes 10 or 12 times a day. Reprehensible I know but there we are. However do you check each and every external and internal light every flight, or each and every navaid ? I know I don't, as I won't be using them, however I do at night, just in case.
Cheers DB6
Cheers DB6
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I do them all, every time, even if I'm in the same a/c for the third time that day. Things fail, rubbish could get in pitot on landing, FOD could blow into engine intakes, split pins on light a/c can work their way loose. I'm not taking a risk that I don't have to.
And for flying at night, I won't do it if I don't know the area, so I know what should be under me approximately.
[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 23 November 2000).]
And for flying at night, I won't do it if I don't know the area, so I know what should be under me approximately.
[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 23 November 2000).]
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25 hr ppler here, with my tuppence worth.
Still in my paranoid stage as well.
So far, I have uncovered very low oil, bald tyre, broken strut, failed lights, frayed magneto lines, fouled plugs, and to top it all off, a wing without bolted attachment points forward and rear of the main spar (PA 28-161)
People, please take all the precautions you can. Some things are trivial, but lose wings are another thing altogether!!
Safe and happy flying.
Still in my paranoid stage as well.
So far, I have uncovered very low oil, bald tyre, broken strut, failed lights, frayed magneto lines, fouled plugs, and to top it all off, a wing without bolted attachment points forward and rear of the main spar (PA 28-161)
People, please take all the precautions you can. Some things are trivial, but lose wings are another thing altogether!!
Safe and happy flying.
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OK, let me try a little heresy...
If you look at the reports of fatal accidents over the last few years, you'll find very few that could have been prevented by a more thorough pre-flight check of the aircraft. That means that either:
a) we're all doing a fantastic job of spotting the potential problems when we do pre-flights
or
b) the value of a pre-flight check of the aircraft is limited in avoiding the fatal accidents
By contrast, many of the fatal accidents were caused by inadequate preparation by pilots, for example in not understanding what weather to expect, not having a plan to deal with it if it went sour, or not knowing enough about the terrain and obstacles on their planned route if they had to use that backup plan.
I humbly submit therefore, that a more effective course of action for those with limited time for pre-flight planning (does anyone have unlimited time?) is to:
1) check the fuel and oil state and quality
2) check the aircraft doesn't have bits on the outside that it shouldn't have (like pitot covers, control locks and tie-down blocks attached by rope)
3) check the W&B is within limits
and then, instead of counting rivets, retire to the nice warm flight planning room to run through that plan one more time...
Discuss.
If you look at the reports of fatal accidents over the last few years, you'll find very few that could have been prevented by a more thorough pre-flight check of the aircraft. That means that either:
a) we're all doing a fantastic job of spotting the potential problems when we do pre-flights
or
b) the value of a pre-flight check of the aircraft is limited in avoiding the fatal accidents
By contrast, many of the fatal accidents were caused by inadequate preparation by pilots, for example in not understanding what weather to expect, not having a plan to deal with it if it went sour, or not knowing enough about the terrain and obstacles on their planned route if they had to use that backup plan.
I humbly submit therefore, that a more effective course of action for those with limited time for pre-flight planning (does anyone have unlimited time?) is to:
1) check the fuel and oil state and quality
2) check the aircraft doesn't have bits on the outside that it shouldn't have (like pitot covers, control locks and tie-down blocks attached by rope)
3) check the W&B is within limits
and then, instead of counting rivets, retire to the nice warm flight planning room to run through that plan one more time...
Discuss.
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There was an old saw that held that aeroplanes used by students were probably in better shape than aeroplanes used by PPL's. The reason being that students go over their plane with a fine tooth comb before every flight whereas your average PPL or CPL may be more confidant of the craft's basic structural integrity and miss the odd split pin here, brake pad there.
I still try to give the Cub a thorough pre-flight every time. If you've been away from it for an hour on a busy field you never know what some clown has done. I've seen the results of twits putting their fingers through fabric. Who knows if some nit hasn't leaned into the cockpit and fiddled with the switches (all one of them on the Cub) or turned the fuel off or the master switch on.
Finally, who knows what bits might have fallen off, old split pins given way etc after that last not so gentle crosswind landing?
I'd rather find this out on the ground where I can do something about it.
As far as I'm concerned, the above applies regardless of the time of day.
Lucifer, how does rubbish get into the PILOT before landing? Sorry, cheap shot
willbav8r, no structural bolts front and rear of the main spar? I thought the aeroplane lying on it's side with the wing in the air would have been a bit of a giveaway there
Finally, bookworm, if the weather does go yukk, the last thing you want is for the situation to be complicated by something you should have spotted on the ground like an aileron starting to flap lose cos a split pin has come out and the nut worked off the hinge pin.
I still try to give the Cub a thorough pre-flight every time. If you've been away from it for an hour on a busy field you never know what some clown has done. I've seen the results of twits putting their fingers through fabric. Who knows if some nit hasn't leaned into the cockpit and fiddled with the switches (all one of them on the Cub) or turned the fuel off or the master switch on.
Finally, who knows what bits might have fallen off, old split pins given way etc after that last not so gentle crosswind landing?
I'd rather find this out on the ground where I can do something about it.
As far as I'm concerned, the above applies regardless of the time of day.
Lucifer, how does rubbish get into the PILOT before landing? Sorry, cheap shot
willbav8r, no structural bolts front and rear of the main spar? I thought the aeroplane lying on it's side with the wing in the air would have been a bit of a giveaway there
Finally, bookworm, if the weather does go yukk, the last thing you want is for the situation to be complicated by something you should have spotted on the ground like an aileron starting to flap lose cos a split pin has come out and the nut worked off the hinge pin.
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willbav8r, are you still with the school that had those crummy aircraft? If so, you are mucho brave. I legged it from my first flying school for various reasons, but one of them was the parlous state of the aircraft. Even allowing for student paranoia, far too many things camee off in my hands as soon as I got near the beasts. Of course these days I use that splendid checklist menmonic FTCLG.
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Acras & Willbav8r
I have an engineering background and always check it all.
2 years ago I have rented an Archer that had spats on it. The nose wheel was broken, I discovered it in France. We were lucky as the spat held the stud in place, otherwise the nose wheel would say good by and roll away. And no, I did not brake it, it was an old damage that was not detected.
Keep on chacking, it is free.
I have an engineering background and always check it all.
2 years ago I have rented an Archer that had spats on it. The nose wheel was broken, I discovered it in France. We were lucky as the spat held the stud in place, otherwise the nose wheel would say good by and roll away. And no, I did not brake it, it was an old damage that was not detected.
Keep on chacking, it is free.
Guest
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Just my opinion, but:
1. You lose a lot of the utility of an aircraft if you are not able to fly it at night or in IMC.
2. Not everyone can afford multi-engine aircraft shares or rental.
3. I've never had too many torches when flying at night, but have several times had too few.
4. Always have your night flying gear with you. The night flight is often as a result of unexpected delays or failures.
5. Complete engine failure is very rare. Thats why single engine aircraft are so popular and practical.
6. Make a mental plan of what actions to take in the event of an airborne problem before you leave the ground.
7. After 1700h in the UK fuel can be hard to obtain.
8. Use "What if?" checks to test your plan. e.g. What if there is a power cut at destination airfield so the lights don't work? An alternate 5 miles away might also be in darkness!
9. Finally, never take anything out of your flight bag and put it down on the ground in the dark. If you're like me it will take you ages to find it again.
1. You lose a lot of the utility of an aircraft if you are not able to fly it at night or in IMC.
2. Not everyone can afford multi-engine aircraft shares or rental.
3. I've never had too many torches when flying at night, but have several times had too few.
4. Always have your night flying gear with you. The night flight is often as a result of unexpected delays or failures.
5. Complete engine failure is very rare. Thats why single engine aircraft are so popular and practical.
6. Make a mental plan of what actions to take in the event of an airborne problem before you leave the ground.
7. After 1700h in the UK fuel can be hard to obtain.
8. Use "What if?" checks to test your plan. e.g. What if there is a power cut at destination airfield so the lights don't work? An alternate 5 miles away might also be in darkness!
9. Finally, never take anything out of your flight bag and put it down on the ground in the dark. If you're like me it will take you ages to find it again.
Guest
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Two valid points have been made in this thread:
i. Check everything, everytime, whether day or night.
ii. Both day- and night-fliers tend to die mostly in one of two ways: Controlled flight into terrain (Splat); Unexpected IMC during VMC flight (Spin and splat).
Same points apply, day or night.
i. Check everything, everytime, whether day or night.
ii. Both day- and night-fliers tend to die mostly in one of two ways: Controlled flight into terrain (Splat); Unexpected IMC during VMC flight (Spin and splat).
Same points apply, day or night.
Guest
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Sorry about ignoring a thread I had started guys, but I have been slightly busy elsewhere.
Wifey and me have the same discusion every year and I try to assure her. Bloody hell.. it's not as if I'm not insured or something.
Totally agree that the view out of the window totally negates any perceived extra risks. It really is magical.
Also, if you have been delayed departing then the NR gets you back to base, same as the IMC if you are down in France and there's a front pushing through.
With regards to pre-flight checks, no matter what the purists might say, we must look closer because of the extra element of risk.
I for one would not fly a single engine on an extension at night, it can be argued that the thing is either worn out or "bedded in" but I don't wish to find out which is true in the dark.
But, despite saying all the above, is it not true that most engine failures are caused by the pilot's mishandling of the fuel system and the lump in general?
So good engine management should help protect your interests at night.
Wifey and me have the same discusion every year and I try to assure her. Bloody hell.. it's not as if I'm not insured or something.
Totally agree that the view out of the window totally negates any perceived extra risks. It really is magical.
Also, if you have been delayed departing then the NR gets you back to base, same as the IMC if you are down in France and there's a front pushing through.
With regards to pre-flight checks, no matter what the purists might say, we must look closer because of the extra element of risk.
I for one would not fly a single engine on an extension at night, it can be argued that the thing is either worn out or "bedded in" but I don't wish to find out which is true in the dark.
But, despite saying all the above, is it not true that most engine failures are caused by the pilot's mishandling of the fuel system and the lump in general?
So good engine management should help protect your interests at night.
