Recommeded providers of IMC training
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Recommeded providers of IMC training
Hmmm, as the nights draw in, I am wondering whether to have a go at the IMC rating this winter (lobbing in night flying at the same time, for good measure). Here is not the place to debate whether or not the IMC is a good thing. The Instructors are duking that one out on their forum at present, and I've seen it suggested that getting an FAA IR would be better, but, supposing for the moment that I do opt for an IMC, I would be grateful to hear from those who have taken the rating fairly recently in SE England of their experiences with various schools.
I live in London N1, so obvious choices include Cranfield and Southend (seems a good idea to go somewhere with an ILS, if possible). Other possibilities include Wycombe and Cambridge. A course concentrated over a few days would be a possibility, although work commitments may confine me to weekends.
I want to go somewhere where the instructors have lots and lots (and lots) more hours than me, care more about airmanship than they do about gold bars, are not aged 19 etc. etc. I think that my ideal instructor would be one of those rara avis airline bods who still hangs out in GA because he/she likes it. Either that or an ex Shackleton skipper or something.
As part of the course I will have to become familiar with some variety of spamcan (I fly Pups/Bulldog at present), and would prefer low wing to high.
I would also prefer a/c where you don't keep saying "what about this?" to the instructor during the walk round, to which he/she replies "don't worry, it's been like that for ages".
Price? Well, all things are relative, so I will say that this is bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt, irrrelevant.
Ooooooooh, Mr Fussy, or what. Any ideas?
I live in London N1, so obvious choices include Cranfield and Southend (seems a good idea to go somewhere with an ILS, if possible). Other possibilities include Wycombe and Cambridge. A course concentrated over a few days would be a possibility, although work commitments may confine me to weekends.
I want to go somewhere where the instructors have lots and lots (and lots) more hours than me, care more about airmanship than they do about gold bars, are not aged 19 etc. etc. I think that my ideal instructor would be one of those rara avis airline bods who still hangs out in GA because he/she likes it. Either that or an ex Shackleton skipper or something.
As part of the course I will have to become familiar with some variety of spamcan (I fly Pups/Bulldog at present), and would prefer low wing to high.
I would also prefer a/c where you don't keep saying "what about this?" to the instructor during the walk round, to which he/she replies "don't worry, it's been like that for ages".
Price? Well, all things are relative, so I will say that this is bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt, irrrelevant.
Ooooooooh, Mr Fussy, or what. Any ideas?
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Not particularly bothered whether airline or not, so long as instruction is good. I have heard good things here and eldsewhere about the instructors at Wycombe, and it's a nice field within reasonable driving distance.
I was rather put off, however, by the performance of a certain Warrior near Old Buckenham some weeks ago. On a gin clear day this character called Old Buck Radio (ie A/G only), said that he'd just been "handed over" by Lakenheath who had been "sending us all over the place" (no wonder), cheerfully indicated that he didn't know where Old Buck was and asked for vectors to the field (without giving any position indication himself). I was airborne and joining Old Buck from the north. I saw him miles off, close to the overhead at Tibenham gliding site (cable launches!) and Talconeston TV mast (very tall!). Between me and the a/g guy (who was an RAF ATCO on his day off) we practically talked the guy down.
Why am I telling you this? Cos of the lovely BA paint job on the Warrior. Of course he might have been a student new to nav, or just someone renting the a/c, but the nonchalant RT suggested someone who was moderately experienced but couldn't be bothered, and did this sort of thing all the time, and overall it didn't create a good impression. Still, I won't let this stop me if others can recommend the BA Flyers for IMC work.
I was rather put off, however, by the performance of a certain Warrior near Old Buckenham some weeks ago. On a gin clear day this character called Old Buck Radio (ie A/G only), said that he'd just been "handed over" by Lakenheath who had been "sending us all over the place" (no wonder), cheerfully indicated that he didn't know where Old Buck was and asked for vectors to the field (without giving any position indication himself). I was airborne and joining Old Buck from the north. I saw him miles off, close to the overhead at Tibenham gliding site (cable launches!) and Talconeston TV mast (very tall!). Between me and the a/g guy (who was an RAF ATCO on his day off) we practically talked the guy down.
Why am I telling you this? Cos of the lovely BA paint job on the Warrior. Of course he might have been a student new to nav, or just someone renting the a/c, but the nonchalant RT suggested someone who was moderately experienced but couldn't be bothered, and did this sort of thing all the time, and overall it didn't create a good impression. Still, I won't let this stop me if others can recommend the BA Flyers for IMC work.
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FNG.
I used to fly the "Skysport" Pup out of Elstree. Why not give them a call, they use freelance instructors one of whom is a Citation pilot. As for going where the ILS is, why? You will need to do some Xcountry, why not do it in the air rather than drive to the Airfield. I think that ILS is only about 1 hour (maybe less) of the 15 hours required. All of the training will be under the hood, the first time I flew in a cloud was by myself about 2 months after I finished the IMC rating.
I went to the U.S. and did it all in one go, not bad on the pocket, I did a residential course and the Camaraderie was good, the only problem was the pitiful state of the weary old Cessnas and ONE of the instructors who wanted to be Mr Bertie Bigknob.
Don't let anyone put you off, even if (like me) you do use it as a "get you home safely" type of rating, rather than a "I'm going whatever the weather" type of rating, it is still well worth having. If nothing else you have 15 hours of flying more precicly that you ever have before. I now no longer think 2375' is good enough, I fly at 2400'.
I used to fly the "Skysport" Pup out of Elstree. Why not give them a call, they use freelance instructors one of whom is a Citation pilot. As for going where the ILS is, why? You will need to do some Xcountry, why not do it in the air rather than drive to the Airfield. I think that ILS is only about 1 hour (maybe less) of the 15 hours required. All of the training will be under the hood, the first time I flew in a cloud was by myself about 2 months after I finished the IMC rating.
I went to the U.S. and did it all in one go, not bad on the pocket, I did a residential course and the Camaraderie was good, the only problem was the pitiful state of the weary old Cessnas and ONE of the instructors who wanted to be Mr Bertie Bigknob.
Don't let anyone put you off, even if (like me) you do use it as a "get you home safely" type of rating, rather than a "I'm going whatever the weather" type of rating, it is still well worth having. If nothing else you have 15 hours of flying more precicly that you ever have before. I now no longer think 2375' is good enough, I fly at 2400'.
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Thanks Newbloke (incidentally, I wonder when you will stop being a Newbloke and I will stop being the ruder version of the same thing, FNG?)
As it happens, Skysport is my current club, taught me to fly, and I sing their praises to whoever will listen. One of the occasional freelancers is a Learjet jockey who before that was a Vic-ten tanker trucker for Brenda. He would be ideal but the problem is fitting it in with his rostering at present. Another of the freelancers is quite brill but he would be the first to admit that his heart is more in spinning than in scud-busting and his favourite aeroplanes are the ones with no instruments and especially no navaids. With flying instructors, as with any specialist professional, it's horses for courses.
Like you, I have no illusions about using the IMC deliberately to fly bad weather in anger, but I am particularly interested in the improvement in overall flying accuracy which you and many others have said it brings.
Anyway, if I can do it with my current outfit I will, but I'm still interested in any thoughts people may have on the IMCers at other places within 1 to 1.5 hrs drive of north/central London.
As it happens, Skysport is my current club, taught me to fly, and I sing their praises to whoever will listen. One of the occasional freelancers is a Learjet jockey who before that was a Vic-ten tanker trucker for Brenda. He would be ideal but the problem is fitting it in with his rostering at present. Another of the freelancers is quite brill but he would be the first to admit that his heart is more in spinning than in scud-busting and his favourite aeroplanes are the ones with no instruments and especially no navaids. With flying instructors, as with any specialist professional, it's horses for courses.
Like you, I have no illusions about using the IMC deliberately to fly bad weather in anger, but I am particularly interested in the improvement in overall flying accuracy which you and many others have said it brings.
Anyway, if I can do it with my current outfit I will, but I'm still interested in any thoughts people may have on the IMCers at other places within 1 to 1.5 hrs drive of north/central London.
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Why not try Pilot Flight Training at Oxford. At the risk of sounding biased(I used to work there)I reckoned it was the best course that we did. They have a Frasca simulator on site that can be used for two hours training on the course but the best part is that you get as much extra time on the sim as you like for free when doing an IMC. As an instructor I found this of huge benefit to the students. I would say 99 percent achieved a very good standard of IF flying within the 15 hour course time and passed the test with no problems. As for the ILS requirement this is usually done combined with an IFR x-country to nearby Cranfield or Coventry.
About the aircraft themselves, although low wing types are available for the training I found most students keen to fly the brand new cessna 172's. These aircraft are pristine and all fully equipped with all the navigation equipment you need and more.
Whether you want to give them a look or not, I think without a doubt that the IMC is the most useful rating available to the PPL holder in this country. It gives pilots 200 percent more confidence in their ability to operate an aircraft accurately in VFR and more marginal conditions. You can't fail but to take more pride in your own flying after an IMC course which can only be good. And remember - the sun is always shining up on top!
If you want more info drop me an e-mail.
About the aircraft themselves, although low wing types are available for the training I found most students keen to fly the brand new cessna 172's. These aircraft are pristine and all fully equipped with all the navigation equipment you need and more.
Whether you want to give them a look or not, I think without a doubt that the IMC is the most useful rating available to the PPL holder in this country. It gives pilots 200 percent more confidence in their ability to operate an aircraft accurately in VFR and more marginal conditions. You can't fail but to take more pride in your own flying after an IMC course which can only be good. And remember - the sun is always shining up on top!
If you want more info drop me an e-mail.
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For what it's worth try Glen Stewart at Soloflight Humberside Airport.
The trip north is well worthwhile.
He covers the American IR or the UK IMC.
Will definitely have more hours at 17000 on General Aviation aircraft.
Starts you off on Warrior then for the last 5 hours of the course you finish on a Commander so not only do you have to think quicker you end up with your complex single rating as well.
Not a fine weather IMC but concentrates on how to get back to terra firma on return from your day out, eg ILS, VOR and NDB approaches.
Oh yes... he is a good guy to fly with (if you can handle his dry humour)
The trip north is well worthwhile.
He covers the American IR or the UK IMC.
Will definitely have more hours at 17000 on General Aviation aircraft.
Starts you off on Warrior then for the last 5 hours of the course you finish on a Commander so not only do you have to think quicker you end up with your complex single rating as well.
Not a fine weather IMC but concentrates on how to get back to terra firma on return from your day out, eg ILS, VOR and NDB approaches.
Oh yes... he is a good guy to fly with (if you can handle his dry humour)
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I did my IMC at Haverfordwest which is definately NOT an hour or so from London. Great atmosphere and really crappy weather so there were very few hours when foggles or a hood were necessary. Book a course and a room in one of the hotels in Haverfordwest town (cheap off season) and enjoy flying in the Wild West. One word of warning, don't get involved in a game of spoof with the owner, John Rees. It WILL cost you. I have done a renewal with Solent Flight in Southampton which was very good and is an OK drive from London (I was living in Camden at the time).
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Babble, I'm sorry I don't follow that reasoning, unless you intend flying such a well equipped plane on a day-to-day basis.
In fact an argument could be made to learn in the least well equipped aircraft available, when you are busy changing frequency halfway through a non precision approach, while still staying in front of what the aircraft is doing, you KNOW you are doing well.
I think if I were doing it again I would do it in the plane I have a share in.
In fact an argument could be made to learn in the least well equipped aircraft available, when you are busy changing frequency halfway through a non precision approach, while still staying in front of what the aircraft is doing, you KNOW you are doing well.
I think if I were doing it again I would do it in the plane I have a share in.
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I can see it both ways: I recognise that, initially at least, I will probably struggle with maintaining orientation, so I see the sense in Babble's idea of using a well specced a/c. I also recognise that it's a good thing to set oneself a challenge and learn to handle the heavier workload that may be a consequence of flying an aircraft where the radio fit is two tin cans and a very very long piece of string.
My flying aspirations do not extend to cruising about in the Flight Levels in super IFR fitted leather-seated smootherama machines, as I prefer aeroplabnes made out of knitting wool and toffee wrappers, so maybe I should do it in the crankiest old beast I can find.
Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions and ideas.
My flying aspirations do not extend to cruising about in the Flight Levels in super IFR fitted leather-seated smootherama machines, as I prefer aeroplabnes made out of knitting wool and toffee wrappers, so maybe I should do it in the crankiest old beast I can find.
Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions and ideas.
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FNG, Did my IMC at T.G. Aviation (Manston) but I can highly recommend the Cabair school of flying at Denham. Extremely friendly and professional instructors, PA-28's (two brand new). Well worth a look as it is a mere 25mins drive from London. Best of luck.
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New Bloke, O.K, I take your point.
Nevertheless I think that flying a procedural NDB approach without an RMI is difficult and potentialy dangerous. Of course it depends on the aerodromes you want to use, but if I were planning an IFR trip with a brand new IMC rating, in a non RMI aircraft I would probably restrict myself to aerodromes which could offer ILS, VOR/DME, or SRA. Much less chance of becomming critically disorientated with these types of approach
NDBs will probably be phased out in the not too distant future anyway
Nevertheless I think that flying a procedural NDB approach without an RMI is difficult and potentialy dangerous. Of course it depends on the aerodromes you want to use, but if I were planning an IFR trip with a brand new IMC rating, in a non RMI aircraft I would probably restrict myself to aerodromes which could offer ILS, VOR/DME, or SRA. Much less chance of becomming critically disorientated with these types of approach
NDBs will probably be phased out in the not too distant future anyway