Elstree - Unlicensed?
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Elstree - Unlicensed?
Just read this notam:
Q)
Any idea what might be behind this?
Q) EGTT/QFALT/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5139N00020W005
B) FROM: 10/07/16 17:04C) TO: 10/10/15 10:00 EST
E) AD MUST NOT BE USED BY ACFT REQUIRING THE USE OF A LICENSED AD.
IN EXERCISE OF IT'S POWERS UNDER ARTICLE 228(2) OF THE ORDER AND IN
ACCORDANCE WITH REGULATION 6(4) OF THE CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY
(CAA) REGULATIONS 1991, THE CAA PROPOSES TO TEMPORARILY SUSPEND THE
AD LICENCE P486 GRANTED TO MONTCLARE SHIPPING COMPANY LIMITED.
THE SUSPENSION IS WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT ON 16 JUL 2010.
B) FROM: 10/07/16 17:04C) TO: 10/10/15 10:00 EST
E) AD MUST NOT BE USED BY ACFT REQUIRING THE USE OF A LICENSED AD.
IN EXERCISE OF IT'S POWERS UNDER ARTICLE 228(2) OF THE ORDER AND IN
ACCORDANCE WITH REGULATION 6(4) OF THE CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY
(CAA) REGULATIONS 1991, THE CAA PROPOSES TO TEMPORARILY SUSPEND THE
AD LICENCE P486 GRANTED TO MONTCLARE SHIPPING COMPANY LIMITED.
THE SUSPENSION IS WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT ON 16 JUL 2010.
Any idea what might be behind this?
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From postings elsewhere it looks like a CAA-enforced runway repair.
About time. The place was in a disgusting condition, and a perfect example of everybody hoping somebody else would do it. A lot of airfields run a similar system (Spanhoe is another one I recall). Even the toilets needed a pair of wellies to walk into, but then you wouldn't want to climb into your plane afterwards with them. For all the money being made by the resident businesses (Cabair etc) I could not believe nobody even bought a £10 broom from B&Q and swept the stones off the runway.
For a "London" airfield it was a disgrace.
During taxi, one had to build up speed on the clean bits and close the throttle over the piles of stones, to avoid prop dings. I still got some though.
About time. The place was in a disgusting condition, and a perfect example of everybody hoping somebody else would do it. A lot of airfields run a similar system (Spanhoe is another one I recall). Even the toilets needed a pair of wellies to walk into, but then you wouldn't want to climb into your plane afterwards with them. For all the money being made by the resident businesses (Cabair etc) I could not believe nobody even bought a £10 broom from B&Q and swept the stones off the runway.
For a "London" airfield it was a disgrace.
During taxi, one had to build up speed on the clean bits and close the throttle over the piles of stones, to avoid prop dings. I still got some though.
Perhaps this might cause other owners of scruffy bits of decaying tarmac inherited from a war some 65 years ago, for which they charge an arm and a leg for the privilege of landing on, to spend some money on their rotting infrastructure.
Shabby, leaking portakabins, lavatories which should be marked with bio-hazard signs, coffee which would have shamed British Rail in the 1960s....these are the UK's so-called 'GA aerodromes....
Shabby, leaking portakabins, lavatories which should be marked with bio-hazard signs, coffee which would have shamed British Rail in the 1960s....these are the UK's so-called 'GA aerodromes....
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Shabby, leaking portakabins, lavatories which should be marked with bio-hazard signs, coffee which would have shamed British Rail in the 1960s....these are the UK's so-called 'GA aerodromes....
NS
Shabby, leaking portakabins, lavatories which should be marked with bio-hazard signs, coffee which would have shamed British Rail in the 1960s....these are the UK's so-called 'GA aerodromes
Part of it's just the difficulty of making GA pay of course. But there also seems to be a perception among many instructors that if you treat people as 'customers' they will expect to get a licence just by paying for it and won't take their training seriously. Whereas the customers are probably looking at the grotty facilities and saying 'this place doesn't seem to take my training as seriously as i do so I'd better go elsewhere'.
Some clubs reminds me of the 'if you behave yourself we will generously allow you near our wonderful aircraft and you will be grateful' approach. Which I found fair enough as a 14 year old ATC cadet getting a free air experience flight but isn't really on for a business competing against other challenges.
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I've always been fascinated by the contrast between the facilities at GA fields, and those at the Golf clubs and Gyms patronised by the same demographic.
Loads of people turn up at an airfield in a spotless £60k Merc, and fly a clapped out C150 which is maintained (on their orders) to the absolute minimum standard possible.I do things the other way round
I have flown to Elstree only to a limited extent but it was apparent that any organisation of airfield maintenance had broken down years before, so nobody was doing anything and they just let the place rot around them.
There is a more general angle to this which IMHO is that people with money spend it quite strategically (unless they have essentially unlimited money, which is sometimes evident at the King Air / jet kind of level) and most men (being mostly men, in this game) spend money strongly preferentially where there is a social scene, which is true for golf etc but not for GA which is full of old moaners and anoraks. Especially single men who will target their leisure activity expenditure where there is interesting "potential".
The key to getting money into GA is to make it a more social activity, but this goes against the business model of schools/clubs who don't generally want people hanging around once they have got the bit of paper. A school like Cabair will be an extreme example of this.
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The reason people still fly at Elstree even though it's a dump, the ATC are awful and the main resident flying school is overpriced and provides cr*p customer service at sky-high prices is.... the airfield's location. Very close to London. Simple as that.
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I go in fairly often and don't really find it a problem, though I do feel it could be spruced up a bit.
As I need to go in again soon I'll be watching to see when it reopens for use
As I need to go in again soon I'll be watching to see when it reopens for use
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It's not an ATC service, it's FIS. What exactly constitutes "awful", by the way?
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I've only been in to Elstree twice and both times the ATC/FIS has been very helpful and friendly. However, I was shocked at the state of the runway as I came closer on the extended final, so hopefully this will get sorted out.
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Elstree closure
NorthSouth said
"They keep telling you what to do on the ground then leave you to fend for yourself in the air. Dreadfully inconsistent"
That's what AFISOs do! And it was upgraded to FIS at Elstree because some years ago when it was A/G people kept bumping into each other on the ground and asking where they should taxi to etc. FISOs also advise inbound traffic where to report etc. They do NOT "control" aircraft when airborne - that's the pilot's job.
Elstree's runway is indeed still closed as the repairs have not yet been made to a number of areas of it. In addition the CAA, which inspected the a/f last week has suspended the licence.
It is worth noting here that the man who has operated Elstree for the last 50 years or so has, effectively, retired and a new management is grappling with a backlog of problems. Many of these stem, I believe, from the levels of debt which the operator has been carrying because so many people who operate from the a/f don't pay on time (and some not at all)! I expect that will change very soon!
The operator has been a very good friend to GA over the years, and I expect that will be the case again, after this brief "outage" is resolved.
"They keep telling you what to do on the ground then leave you to fend for yourself in the air. Dreadfully inconsistent"
That's what AFISOs do! And it was upgraded to FIS at Elstree because some years ago when it was A/G people kept bumping into each other on the ground and asking where they should taxi to etc. FISOs also advise inbound traffic where to report etc. They do NOT "control" aircraft when airborne - that's the pilot's job.
Elstree's runway is indeed still closed as the repairs have not yet been made to a number of areas of it. In addition the CAA, which inspected the a/f last week has suspended the licence.
It is worth noting here that the man who has operated Elstree for the last 50 years or so has, effectively, retired and a new management is grappling with a backlog of problems. Many of these stem, I believe, from the levels of debt which the operator has been carrying because so many people who operate from the a/f don't pay on time (and some not at all)! I expect that will change very soon!
The operator has been a very good friend to GA over the years, and I expect that will be the case again, after this brief "outage" is resolved.
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people who operate from the a/f don't pay on time
The first thing you do when you get into the office every morning is chase overdue payments.
Once you've got all that cash in, or started the court paperwork, the second thing you do is issue invoices for work already done or goods already supplied but which haven't been invoiced yet (which really can only be because the work was completed late last night, can't it, otherwise you'd have invoiced yesterday, wouldn't you).
Only after you've worked to get in money you're already owed does it make any sense to start doing new work to earn new money.
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The reason people still fly at Elstree even though it's a dump, is.... the airfield's location. Very close to London. Simple as that.
The first thing you do when you get into the office every morning is chase overdue payments.
Once you've got all that cash in, or started the court paperwork, the second thing you do is issue invoices for work already done or goods already supplied but which haven't been invoiced yet (which really can only be because the work was completed late last night, can't it, otherwise you'd have invoiced yesterday, wouldn't you).
Only after you've worked to get in money you're already owed does it make any sense to start doing new work to earn new money.
Once you've got all that cash in, or started the court paperwork, the second thing you do is issue invoices for work already done or goods already supplied but which haven't been invoiced yet (which really can only be because the work was completed late last night, can't it, otherwise you'd have invoiced yesterday, wouldn't you).
Only after you've worked to get in money you're already owed does it make any sense to start doing new work to earn new money.
Which means that the owners of Elstree should do all e above and the remedial work, double the landing and parking fees and run the business properly.
Those who need to use the place can afford to do so, those that don't want to can go elsewhere.
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Robin -
Landing fees - doubled since the runway was closed? Or since when? But then, I'm a "resident" so for me they're rolled into the "residential fee", so I wouldn't know, though I'm surprised if that's happened since the management change which only happened days ago. But then, if they've been very low for the last ?? years perhaps that's contributed to the shortage of cash for reparations etc. Chickens, eggs etc.....
Landing fees - doubled since the runway was closed? Or since when? But then, I'm a "resident" so for me they're rolled into the "residential fee", so I wouldn't know, though I'm surprised if that's happened since the management change which only happened days ago. But then, if they've been very low for the last ?? years perhaps that's contributed to the shortage of cash for reparations etc. Chickens, eggs etc.....
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Low? I'm not sure I'd call £50 for a DA42 low! Although the 50% "discount" for cash makes it a more reasonable £25. Bit trickier for those not habitually carrying wads of cash though, I'm not especially keen on carrying extra cash when a debit card does exactly the same thing! Maybe something for the new management to consider?