Intensive IMC course this summer?

[belowradar]

I would agree - if it wasn't for the fact that crap weather will simply result in lesson cancellation and a huge waste of time for everybody concerned, which is even worse for a visiting foreign pilot who is time-limited.

crap weather is what you should be looking for and any IMC instructor who doesn't like flying in actual due to crap aircraft should find another club and or another vocation.

As for the wrong type of rain? that made me laugh ! We often fly on the edge of rain showers and it would be a good idea to shoot a few approaches in an approaching squall and experience a missed approach for real when the viz deteriorates. Not suggesting we mess with known CB's but stronger winds, squalls, lowering viz and effects of high ground will all conspire to mess up the best ILS

There is a hell of a difference between flying around on a lovely summers day in fair weather cu with foggles on and flying in solid imc with low pressure and strong winds.

Give me real IMC anyday as it is much more challenging and fun for any student or experienced IMC instructor.

[NazgulAir]

I'm with Belowradar on this. Some, if not all, IMC training should be done in actual IMC.

When I fly in IMC the IMC itself seems to trip a switch in my brain. Distracting visual information from outside are gone. The world is in the cockpit and the instruments. I am focused on my simulated picture of the world. Everything is under control. I am ready for any eventuality.

It's totally different to the workload in VFR flight, a different way of thinking, a deployment of your visual senses into the leads that the instruments offer, a different situational awareness.

Flying with foggles, hoods, screens etc. is not so successful in switching you to that different way of thinking. I find it actually easier to switch to that frame of mind in actual IMC than when the visual world keeps intruding.

Having said that, it is not the purpose of IMC training to prepare you for continued / planned flight in IMC. It is meant to make it safe for you to climb/descend through cloud and to follow an instrument procedure. Doing sustained IMC flying in uncontrolled airspace while not being controlled or separated is not safe and should be avoided.

Maybe it is because the privileges of the IMCR and its application are misunderstood by so many that JAA and EASA have been so reluctant in adopting it into their FCL.?

[IO540]

Sure one should train in real IMC (because the goggles/hood produces an unrepresentative situation compared to being free to move one's head around but not seeing anything out of the windows) but one should not train in weather which the same pilot, having achieved his qualifications, would regard as hazardous in the same type of aircraft.

That's why I am very unhappy about suggestions that one should train in heavy rain, etc. The rain is not the problem; it is the CB/TCU it is falling from. Flying into one of those is a very bad idea. I recall flying an ILS into Biggin through the bottom of one.

[belowradar]

I agree that we need to fly through IMC to good conditions on top and that newly minted imc pilots should take bite sized chunks and gain experience however your instructor should have lots of experience in imc and the best time to fly in really horrible weather is when your FI is sitting next to you so that you experience the reality of how rough it can get.

Once you have your rating you will then fly prudently BUT if you are caught out unexpectedly (wx not as forecast?) then at least you will have a memory of what it is like and what to do.

[tmmorris]

I was unlucky with the weather for my IMCR course - it was good VMC all the way - and encountered the first real IMC on the test, ironically. That said, I felt well prepared and passed fine; but my instructor held an IR and flew regular air taxi/charter work for a neighbouring company in singles and light twins, so he had real IMC experience. Plus the school had an (ancient but pretty good) FNPT (a sort of sim without any visuals or movement) which I could use free of charge as much as I liked during the course - we practised procedures on it before flying them in the air so I didn't use MS FS much at the time, though I use it a lot to keep current since then.

Tim

[madlandrover]

one should not train in weather which the same pilot, having achieved his qualifications, would regard as hazardous in the same type of aircraft.

That's a fair and correct point of view. However, my philosophy when teaching is a little different: yes, of course I would like all pilots to have a balanced view of risk taking and use common sense. Sadly that's not always true, and even the most sensible pilots can inadvertently end up in hazardous situations - whether it's through their own judgement/experience or external factors makes little difference when things turn nasty.

I also have to bear in mind that once I've finished training someone I may well never see them again so won't have a chance to mentor them/keep a very subtle eye on their flying. With that in mind I think I would be failing in my duty if I didn't fly people in poor weather (never so poor that it's truly dangerous of course, flying through the middle of a developed CB would be stupid, just as for prolonged icing in a non de-iced aircraft!) so that they at least have the practical experience to know what the risks really are.

That serves a dual purpose: 1) hopefully teaching them the judgement to stay away from conditions beyond their ability/the aircraft's ability; 2) should the worst happen, showing them what the aircraft's ability actually is and thus allowing them to remain rather less nervous and rather more collected. That's helped me at least once, in a de-iced twin in icing conditions when the de-ice systems failed!