Just what is a standard overhead join?
PPruNaholic!
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There seems to be an idea around that the US system of joining 45 degrees to the downwind leg is somewhow simpler/safe/clearer than ours.... yet it seems from an article on Avweb that this is far from the case!
The article describes its own "homebrew" join that the author has been using for years with success... with the implication being that other people are using other techniques. So the situation over there is no better - possibly worse.
Take a look at http://www.avweb.com/articles/patterns.html
Andy
The article describes its own "homebrew" join that the author has been using for years with success... with the implication being that other people are using other techniques. So the situation over there is no better - possibly worse.
Take a look at http://www.avweb.com/articles/patterns.html
Andy
I say there boy
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And what's more it seems that this guy's conclusion is that a join similar to the UK standard overhead join (albeit slightly modified to meet the US 45 degree requirement) is the safest.
Funny that. Give me an overhead join anytime.
cheers!
foggy.
Funny that. Give me an overhead join anytime.
cheers!
foggy.
"Trust Me"
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There's no F in ART?
The above make an overhead join one!
Go with PD and DB6, but fly the join in your head b4 if u can, and keep a damn good lookout in the overhead. Like VRP's, one persons location in 'overhead', 'deadside' etc can be quite different to another. How many times have you called overhead to be followed seconds later by another 'overhead' call -where the HELL is he? PANIC and much head swivelling. Plus reluctance of some pilots to give position check when asked. Usually not overhead but coming up to it.......
The above make an overhead join one!
Go with PD and DB6, but fly the join in your head b4 if u can, and keep a damn good lookout in the overhead. Like VRP's, one persons location in 'overhead', 'deadside' etc can be quite different to another. How many times have you called overhead to be followed seconds later by another 'overhead' call -where the HELL is he? PANIC and much head swivelling. Plus reluctance of some pilots to give position check when asked. Usually not overhead but coming up to it.......
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I concur with DB6 et al on what constitutes a standard OHJ, but a point everyone seems to have missed here is that you should ALLWAYS check on local procedures before going to an unfamiliar airfield - and if you have not done so (ie because you were going somewhere else and had to divert) ASK. If you are in this situation non radio and NEED to go in, have a good think about the surrounding airspace try to stay as near standard as possible and keep a GOOD lookout, then expect to have to discuss it on the ground, if you are in a situation, most fields are very understanding.
Many fields have local variations, usually for good reasons.
Many fields have local variations, usually for good reasons.
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QNH 1013 + Others,
The definition of a "Standard Overhead Join" can be found in the UK AIP Gen Pg 3-3-4 para 5.5.2. (Standard Overhead Join). Any other type of overhead join can not be described as "Standard". At units with full ATC, the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1, specifies that any variance in the above procedure must be published in local operating instructions and the phraseology "Standard Overhead join" MUST not be used.
The definition of a "Standard Overhead Join" can be found in the UK AIP Gen Pg 3-3-4 para 5.5.2. (Standard Overhead Join). Any other type of overhead join can not be described as "Standard". At units with full ATC, the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1, specifies that any variance in the above procedure must be published in local operating instructions and the phraseology "Standard Overhead join" MUST not be used.
Dir. PPRuNe Line Service
Note that the UK AIP is online at www.ais.org.uk It's one of the most useful things on the 'net.
The section on overhead joins is at http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/gen/10303.pdf
---Mik
The section on overhead joins is at http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/gen/10303.pdf
---Mik
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To do a standard overhead join you have got to understand what it is there for. It is a manoeuvre designed to get you into the circuit that has no active RT, or you don't have a radio. Remember airlaw, you must get two-way comms with the field before entering the ATZ and then follow circuit direction and traffic. If you can't get two way comms you must enter the circuit following the circuit that is in use giving way to other circuit traffic.
Therefore you MUST join overhead at 2000' agl so that you are not in the ATZ until you have assertained the circuit direction and can comply with it. Then descend deadside to join crosswind at the upwind threshold at circuit height. Always giving way to current circuit traffic.
Genghis, these other joins can only be described as non-standard overhead joins published particularly for that field. Airspace restrictions etc. These are not the default standard joins as mentioned above.
Also remember to join the crosswind leg ABOVE the upwind threshold so that you will hopefully not infringe departing traffic below you on the climb out AND any pilot downwind, hearing you call joining cross wind, will know where to exactly look to find you. A lot of pilots join mid downwind from the field overhead and frighten the S... out of me as the turn their arse in front of me cutting me up.
If we all stuck to the standard at fields with no other published overhead join we would all know where to look for each other. That is what I believe it was designed for.
Therefore you MUST join overhead at 2000' agl so that you are not in the ATZ until you have assertained the circuit direction and can comply with it. Then descend deadside to join crosswind at the upwind threshold at circuit height. Always giving way to current circuit traffic.
Genghis, these other joins can only be described as non-standard overhead joins published particularly for that field. Airspace restrictions etc. These are not the default standard joins as mentioned above.
Also remember to join the crosswind leg ABOVE the upwind threshold so that you will hopefully not infringe departing traffic below you on the climb out AND any pilot downwind, hearing you call joining cross wind, will know where to exactly look to find you. A lot of pilots join mid downwind from the field overhead and frighten the S... out of me as the turn their arse in front of me cutting me up.
If we all stuck to the standard at fields with no other published overhead join we would all know where to look for each other. That is what I believe it was designed for.
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Capt AirProx,
I believe that the original purpose of an overhead join, was it is the only way you could actually properly read the signal square and get all the info you required for fitting safely into the traffic pattern etc.
I believe that the original purpose of an overhead join, was it is the only way you could actually properly read the signal square and get all the info you required for fitting safely into the traffic pattern etc.
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There's an interesting letter from John Lewis, Isle of White, on P.43 of the Autumn issue of Flight Safety Bulletin.
He says -
"Circuits and the ATZ are the worst places for air misses, so avoid them. On departure, climb away as quick as you can above arriving traffic. On arrival, get below departing traffic and land. Straight in is safest, joining base leg is next best, etc. As you enter, slow down, lights on, look out and broadcast your position as much as good manners permit "
"The 2000' overhead join is dreadful."
And he goes on to explain why.
Discuss?
Happy landings
WS
He says -
"Circuits and the ATZ are the worst places for air misses, so avoid them. On departure, climb away as quick as you can above arriving traffic. On arrival, get below departing traffic and land. Straight in is safest, joining base leg is next best, etc. As you enter, slow down, lights on, look out and broadcast your position as much as good manners permit "
"The 2000' overhead join is dreadful."
And he goes on to explain why.
Discuss?
Happy landings
WS
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Thread Starter
An interesting thought, when it finally arrives I shall peruse my FSB carefully. I suspect the real answer is "it depends" !
If you are pitching up to a small grass strip with no radio or only an AFIS, I defend to the death my right to fly an OHJ. JL's point is probably valid at a busy training site such as, for example, Booker.
G
If you are pitching up to a small grass strip with no radio or only an AFIS, I defend to the death my right to fly an OHJ. JL's point is probably valid at a busy training site such as, for example, Booker.
G
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For them as don't see Flight Safety Bulletin, this goes on -
"The 2000" overhead join is dreadful. As you approach, departing traffic climbs through your level with the view ahead obscured by the cowling. Then you manoeuvre repeatedly in the crowded airspace, changing altitude near other aircraft with vertical blind spots as large as your own. And you have to endure this dangerous environment for an age.
Don't do it"
Hm
WS
"The 2000" overhead join is dreadful. As you approach, departing traffic climbs through your level with the view ahead obscured by the cowling. Then you manoeuvre repeatedly in the crowded airspace, changing altitude near other aircraft with vertical blind spots as large as your own. And you have to endure this dangerous environment for an age.
Don't do it"
Hm
WS
Don't anybody ask me to explain the joining procedures at my home airfield, it'll take a very long time!!
All the stuff you see in Pooleys for Wycombe is because there is no deadside (due gliders and tugs on that side). I'm used to it, but for visiting pilots (especially inexperienced ones), it can be a bit of a handful - and the ATZ can be very busy.
Also, we have the strangest shaped circuit on 25 that you've ever seen....due to Nimbys (a few famous ones aswell!) that were not aware there has been an airfield on the site since WW2!
Still, it is good to have "proper" Air Traffic, and they are very quick to offer base joins and straight-in's when it's quiet.
Cheers,
EGTB
All the stuff you see in Pooleys for Wycombe is because there is no deadside (due gliders and tugs on that side). I'm used to it, but for visiting pilots (especially inexperienced ones), it can be a bit of a handful - and the ATZ can be very busy.
Also, we have the strangest shaped circuit on 25 that you've ever seen....due to Nimbys (a few famous ones aswell!) that were not aware there has been an airfield on the site since WW2!
Still, it is good to have "proper" Air Traffic, and they are very quick to offer base joins and straight-in's when it's quiet.
Cheers,
EGTB
