Keep the landing fees high please
Join Date: Feb 2001
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I find it difficult to get excited about landing fees. I have to pay nearly £100 an hour to hire the aircraft to get there so whether it be £5 or £15, it has little impact on the cost of the day out.
What I would really like is aircraft hire costs to come down to US levels (I paid less than £40 an hour out there last year). This WOULD make a difference to the cost of my day out!
What I would really like is aircraft hire costs to come down to US levels (I paid less than £40 an hour out there last year). This WOULD make a difference to the cost of my day out!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Shoreham
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I think the issue of landing fees is a tricky one. After all, I don't mind paying £5 or £10 landing fees to land away from the home 'drome, but consider people doing their PPLs. I trained at Redhill and Shoreham (weather dependent). I'd timed it right so that all my circuit training was carried out at Redhill, which has no landing fees. However, if i'd had to do it at Shoreham, which has landing fees of £14, or £7.50 per touch and go, i'd be looking at about £75 per lesson just in landing fees! I think that all airfields should waive landing fees for student pilots, or maybe have a one-off fee of say, £100 that covers all your landing fees for the duration of your training?
What do you reckon? Is this one to consider, or am I talking out of my a**e?
WO
What do you reckon? Is this one to consider, or am I talking out of my a**e?
WO
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Just before recently qualifying I wanted to do something special (to me anyway).
I decide to land at Birmingham airport (with an instructor at my side). Having travelled from there as a passenger on the big boys toys, I wanted to take a PA 28 in there. Sad but true.
It was worth every penny of the £51 pounds I paid.
I'd like to do Heathrow next, but as a single engine PPL with no ratings, on my own I probably be able to do it once and once only.
Out of interest how much would I need to borrow to take a PA 28 in there? Just in case I get an IR rating in my dreams tonight.
I decide to land at Birmingham airport (with an instructor at my side). Having travelled from there as a passenger on the big boys toys, I wanted to take a PA 28 in there. Sad but true.
It was worth every penny of the £51 pounds I paid.
I'd like to do Heathrow next, but as a single engine PPL with no ratings, on my own I probably be able to do it once and once only.
Out of interest how much would I need to borrow to take a PA 28 in there? Just in case I get an IR rating in my dreams tonight.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Correct up to a point, but there are fees imposed by airports for parking/tiedown in US - so touch and goes are free, but if you feel like actually getting out for a walk (or God forbid, a Big Mac), you will get charged!
I don't understand why the wet rates are so much lower though (apart from gas costs, maybe) - they still need maintenance, and I bet the engineers get paid loads more here than in the UK
There certainly is a case for public funds paying for ATC, etc. in UK ... Maybe you should join AOPA UK and get them to lobby for you???
Extreme Danger I'm probably wrong, but I think I read somewhere that you basically cannot take a PA28 into LHR. I think they do it by insisting that you are able to maintain a ridiculous speed (200 knots?) on finals, so that the big boys can maintain seperation.... This, I'm afraid, is another area where the USA scores! Not only are you allowed to land say, a PA28 at busy airports (with Instrument rating), you are positively encouraged to do so (or at least were until recent changes to Class B rules, which are being relaxed as we speak).
[ 18 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
I don't understand why the wet rates are so much lower though (apart from gas costs, maybe) - they still need maintenance, and I bet the engineers get paid loads more here than in the UK
There certainly is a case for public funds paying for ATC, etc. in UK ... Maybe you should join AOPA UK and get them to lobby for you???
Extreme Danger I'm probably wrong, but I think I read somewhere that you basically cannot take a PA28 into LHR. I think they do it by insisting that you are able to maintain a ridiculous speed (200 knots?) on finals, so that the big boys can maintain seperation.... This, I'm afraid, is another area where the USA scores! Not only are you allowed to land say, a PA28 at busy airports (with Instrument rating), you are positively encouraged to do so (or at least were until recent changes to Class B rules, which are being relaxed as we speak).
[ 18 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
I do know of someone who went to LHR in a PA28 some years ago. The late Dave Coombes of Aeros went as well, because I think they needed someone with an IR up front.
No idea of cost, I'm afraid. But you could always find a friendly helicopter pilot and so cost-sharing with him while flying over Heathrow VFR - NO IR needed.
No idea of cost, I'm afraid. But you could always find a friendly helicopter pilot and so cost-sharing with him while flying over Heathrow VFR - NO IR needed.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Extreeme Danger...............
You don't need an IR to fly into Heathrow.
If you could find a very quiet time (late at night) to fly in you could probably arrange it.Christmas day used to be a favourite.
You would need to telephone Heathrow OP's for a handling agent and general permission (AND COSTS), then Heathrow approach at West Drayton to find out what they want you to do.
Regards
FBW
You don't need an IR to fly into Heathrow.
If you could find a very quiet time (late at night) to fly in you could probably arrange it.Christmas day used to be a favourite.
You would need to telephone Heathrow OP's for a handling agent and general permission (AND COSTS), then Heathrow approach at West Drayton to find out what they want you to do.
Regards
FBW
Join Date: Apr 2001
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You don't need an IR to fly into Heathrow.
I hate Air Law....
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I believe I read in Pooleys (don't have it in front of me, and information should be checked in the AIP anyway) that Heathrow won't allow any single-engined or light twin-engined aircraft in (don't know how they'd definte "light" with regard to the twin, but banning singles rules out the PA28).
Also, as FBW says, you'd need SVFR - remember, ATC don't have to give you this, it is entirely at their discretion, so even if you get permission to land, you may not get permission to enter the zone
Have to agree about big airports, though - I also asked my instructor to take me "somewhere big", and we went to Bournemouth - amazing to be sharing the runway with 737s!
FFF
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Also, as FBW says, you'd need SVFR - remember, ATC don't have to give you this, it is entirely at their discretion, so even if you get permission to land, you may not get permission to enter the zone
Have to agree about big airports, though - I also asked my instructor to take me "somewhere big", and we went to Bournemouth - amazing to be sharing the runway with 737s!
FFF
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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I seem to recall a few years ago (senile Old Git that I am) that a Chipmunk landed at night at LHR without anybody knowing. Of course they knew in the morning when they spotted it on the ground. Otherwise I wouldnt be writing this would I? because nobody would have known....
burble burble.... quick nurse the sedatives.
burble burble.... quick nurse the sedatives.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Finals in a PA28 at LHR at 200 knots - What's the problem.
Should I do it with flaps or without.
..and do I call for 'landing', 'cleared to land' or 'finals for touch and explode'.
Should I do it with flaps or without.
..and do I call for 'landing', 'cleared to land' or 'finals for touch and explode'.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Well, after a little web searching, I've found the definitive answer to EGLL (aka LHR).
May I draw the learned gentleman's attention to paragraph 1.b on page 2-EGLL-1-11 (I kid you not) from the Heathrow AIP, which you can download as a pdf from: http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/ad/EGLL.htm
(right click on the "textual data" at the top of the page, then save and browse the pdf - this will be quicker than left clicking it, honest!)
If you can't be bothered, here is part of said paragraph:
OK - no mention of ultra-fast PA28 requirements, but I did read somewhere that it was landing and take-off speeds which are driving this rule (to make traffic separation easier). Look at it optimistically - you've saved a sh!t load of landing fees by not being allowed 
You can however enter the London Control Zone under SVFR in order to transit and/or use another airfield within the zone (this is in para 13.c on page 2-EGLL-1-24)
There you go - no charge
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
May I draw the learned gentleman's attention to paragraph 1.b on page 2-EGLL-1-11 (I kid you not) from the Heathrow AIP, which you can download as a pdf from: http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/ad/EGLL.htm
(right click on the "textual data" at the top of the page, then save and browse the pdf - this will be quicker than left clicking it, honest!)
If you can't be bothered, here is part of said paragraph:
Light single and twin engined private aircraft will not be permitted to use the airport.
You can however enter the London Control Zone under SVFR in order to transit and/or use another airfield within the zone (this is in para 13.c on page 2-EGLL-1-24)
There you go - no charge
[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
