DME Channel Paring

[Aussie Andy]

I want to use the new DME at Wolverhampton (Halfpenny Green) so looked up the relevant NOTAM (http://62.232.68.182/filestor/egbo.txt) to discover that the shiny new DME is operating on "CH 23X".

But where, officially, does one look up the channel pairing info to understand what VHF Nav frequenecy to dial up on the set? I tried looking in the AIP but didn't find anything relevant - did I miss it?

In the end, I found some information on a US website which contains a list of FAR part 171 which contains a table.. so now I belueve that CH 23 X = VHF 108.6, but I would be happier if I knew where to look this up from our own CAA sources.

Can someone set me straight as to where this information should be found?

Thanks,


Andy

[This message has been edited by Aussie Andy (edited 06 July 2001).]

[Cahlibahn]

Hmm, expected to find it in the AIP but a quick looked didn't produce the desired result. If all else fails see Pooleys page 654.

[Aussie Andy]

Ah! Well I don't have Pooley's but I do have the Bottlang Airfield manual - I'll look it when in there when I get home.

Andy

[jabberwok]

Andy,

The info is in Bottlang and also the Aerad Supplements.

I agree that this information should be in the UK AIP but I see a disturbing trend in which a lot of data is being removed from this document.

As an example try finding instructions on how to fill in a flight plan. It used to be in the AIP and also in a Yellow AIC - it is not in either now.

[JuicyLucy]

Andy - you should not have to look it up. Whoever filed the NOTAM should have put the corresponding VHF freq. with it.

[2Donkeys]

jabberwork wrote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">As an example try finding instructions on how to fill in a flight plan. It used to be in the AIP and also in a Yellow AIC - it is not in either now.</font>

I think you may be being a little harsh on the AIS.

AIC Yellow 336 (60/1999)covers a superset of what used to be in the AIP. In addition, there is even CAP694, if you need even more explanation.

-2Donkeys

[Cahlibahn]

Surely the flight planning bit is still in the AIP at ENR1.10 ?

[2Donkeys]

Not quite Calibahn. If, as I believe, the questioner was after basic info about how to complete an FPL form - that has now gone from the AIP.

ENR1-10 deals with the mechanism by which an FPL gets filed, and who needs to deal with it

-2Donkeys

[Cahlibahn]

I see what you mean 2 Donkeys. In that case may I refer the honourable gentleman to CAA safety sense Leaflet 20A, available online at http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/includes/ga/20aleafl.pdf

[Aussie Andy]

Cheers Jabberwok - it is in Bottlang, and for anyone looking for it it is page "Communications-1" - I guess I should have figured that out for myself!

Andy

[jabberwok]

I think you may be being a little harsh on the AIS.

AIC Yellow 336 (60/1999)covers a superset of what used to be in the AIP. In addition, there is even CAP694, if you need even more explanation.

-2Donkeys

No, I don't believe I am being too harsh. AIC 336 is specifically for NAT flights and covers a lot of information of no value to GA. CAP694 does indeed provide the data but I have yet to see a copy (I presume because you have to buy it) and it is not mandatory material for any ATSU (AIP and AIC's are).

What I am suggesting is that by removing the "Completion of FPL Form" data from both AIC and AIP at the same time it has become quite difficult to get help when you need it. I would have liked to see it remain as an AIC - our copy was well and truly grubby with frequent use.

I phoned our local FBU today to see their reaction on a FPL query. They hadn't heard of CAP694 and could only refer to an out of date Pooleys they found!

[Aussie Andy]

Well,for those interested to know, I contacted NATS to complain that the NOTAM didn't have useful info and got a very good response from a nice man in AIS:

...you raise a valid point in relation to our use of Channel numbers when referring to DMEs. Whilst we make a point of supplying the CAA's GASIL editor with the associated VHF frequency details when compiling information for his 'Changes' sheet, we do not routinely include that detail in NOTAM or within the AD 2.19 tables in our AIP. However, we shall endeavour in future to add details of the frequencies to the AIP tables and to reflect them in any NOTAMs that refer.

He also said that they will soon be adding 'standalone' (i.e. not linked) subject index for the online version of the AIP, in response to requests from GA pilots.

So, 10 points to NATS/AIS - very responsive and helpful!

Andy

[ 11 July 2001: Message edited by: Aussie Andy ]

[Stan Evil]

Just to get a bit technical, you may find this useful:

Frequency - Channel Relationship. The relationship between DME frequency and channels is as follows:

If Channel less than 60

Frequency = 100 + (Channel + 63)/10

If Channel greater than 60

Frequency = 100 + (Channel + 53)/10

If Y Channel

Add 0.05 to Frequency

For Example:

Channel 25Y becomes:

100 + (25 + 63)/10 + 0.05 = 108.85 MHz

[Aussie Andy]

Hi all,

Again planning to fly to Wolverhampton, so much to my delight and surprise, on checking the NOTAM for EGBO at http://62.232.68.182/filestor/egbo.txt I see that they now include the VHF Frequency pair right there in the NOTAM text:

DME Installed. Ident 'WOL', CH23X/108.60 , H24, psn 523056.86N 0021542.54W elev 300ft amsl. UK AIP AD2-EGBO-1-1/2 refers (L803/01) (PERM)

I think thats a great response by the CAA/AIS folks - again, well done! Nice to know the feedback is listed to and acted on, even on such a small matter as this.

Andy