The CAA:
Join Date: May 2001
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The CAA are in most circumstances the best friend of the GA community. I find them very approachable and willing to discuss issues with individuals as to how these issues affect GA. Are you aware for example of the real efforts put in by them to ensure equal user access? Are you aware that many of the CAA staff are also private pilots, Before anyone asks I am a GA pilot totally unconnected with the CAA and fly around 150 hrs per annum throughout Europe. try a more positive approach, it can work wonders.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Hmmmmmmm...........I suppose that it is inevitable that with the growth of aviation there will need to be an increase in rules and regulations as types of aircraft grow etc and in many ways the CAA does do a good job. I have heard of them occassionally considering people who dont't quite meet the eyesight requirements on an individual basis which is good. However there are also things like the previous example and one I read about recently where they are demanding £65 or so just so that someone can continue counting hours spent teaching air cadets in a motor glider towards keeping their PPL valid, even though they had been doing it for years before and were obviously qualified.
Having said that it is inevitable that GA will become more restricted as it grows and with increasing numbers of GA aircraft I suppose this is necessary so it would be best to work with the CAA rather than against them and try to "lessen the impact". I would like things to be in the 20s but that would be downright dangerous with the numbers of planes about today. Still though, this doesnt give the CAA the right to one day say that you have to pay a certain amount for a certain certificate that says you can do what you've been doing for years anyway. The FAA is an example of what the CAA could be like minus a few bureaucratic splodges. I accept what you say: that we should work with them, but you must admit that in some cases the CAA do impose expensive, restrictive, un-necessary rules.
Having said that it is inevitable that GA will become more restricted as it grows and with increasing numbers of GA aircraft I suppose this is necessary so it would be best to work with the CAA rather than against them and try to "lessen the impact". I would like things to be in the 20s but that would be downright dangerous with the numbers of planes about today. Still though, this doesnt give the CAA the right to one day say that you have to pay a certain amount for a certain certificate that says you can do what you've been doing for years anyway. The FAA is an example of what the CAA could be like minus a few bureaucratic splodges. I accept what you say: that we should work with them, but you must admit that in some cases the CAA do impose expensive, restrictive, un-necessary rules.
Interesting, we suddenly get this new "member rating thingy". I get three votes and one star, and Tiger gets one vote and one star.
Nice to be popular aint it Tiger!
G
Nice to be popular aint it Tiger!
G
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If you were old enough to vote, you might be able to do something about the CAA.
But as you're already coming down off your high horse, I'll not be so harsh on you.
At what point does one require a CPL. When you're an employee flying a company aircraft on company or private business? When you're flying your own aircraft to a business meeting? When you're flying your own aircraft accompanied by a colleague to a business meeting? When the company covers your travel costs?
We've not even begun to discuss the C of A of the aircraft yet. Can you begin to understand the detail and extent of the task they have been set?
Again, you're not old enough to remember the bad old days of the CAA.
What you have now is a body which is coming round to serving the public and still needs improvement in some ways.
They are also having to fight the political battle with the European involvement in their
task. Thus, for example, you get the NPPL which is probably the most forward thinking initiatives in the history of GA.
Furthermore, they allow the PFA to regulate maintenance of certain aircraft types and the BGA to regulate gliding.
I too long for those golden days gone by and wish we could get on with the flying. We can't! If you don't like the smell, get out of the cowshed. Or join AOPA and at least have a voice.
By the way, don't compare the CAA and the FAA . Their bureaucracy is in some ways worse than ours and the population density is nearly TEN times that of the UK. Its a different kettle of fish.
But as you're already coming down off your high horse, I'll not be so harsh on you.
At what point does one require a CPL. When you're an employee flying a company aircraft on company or private business? When you're flying your own aircraft to a business meeting? When you're flying your own aircraft accompanied by a colleague to a business meeting? When the company covers your travel costs?
We've not even begun to discuss the C of A of the aircraft yet. Can you begin to understand the detail and extent of the task they have been set?
Again, you're not old enough to remember the bad old days of the CAA.
What you have now is a body which is coming round to serving the public and still needs improvement in some ways.
They are also having to fight the political battle with the European involvement in their
task. Thus, for example, you get the NPPL which is probably the most forward thinking initiatives in the history of GA.
Furthermore, they allow the PFA to regulate maintenance of certain aircraft types and the BGA to regulate gliding.
I too long for those golden days gone by and wish we could get on with the flying. We can't! If you don't like the smell, get out of the cowshed. Or join AOPA and at least have a voice.
By the way, don't compare the CAA and the FAA . Their bureaucracy is in some ways worse than ours and the population density is nearly TEN times that of the UK. Its a different kettle of fish.
Hang on Mr Moto,
I agree with most of what you say but...
USA has about four times the population of the UK, and an entire continent to put them in. We've got a small island. surely the USA would be about 1/10 of the UK (or is that what you meant, I've made typos like that before now!).
It's also worthy of mention that the "charter" of the FAA is to support and regulate aviation. That of the CAA is just to regulate. A subtle, but important difference.
G
N.B. Where have the stars gone?
N.B.B. Off subject, but I just got the latest AFE catalogue in the post. They have privately compiled and published a "UK AIM" and are advertising it for £15, perhaps the answer to everything is private enterprise!
I agree with most of what you say but...
USA has about four times the population of the UK, and an entire continent to put them in. We've got a small island. surely the USA would be about 1/10 of the UK (or is that what you meant, I've made typos like that before now!).
It's also worthy of mention that the "charter" of the FAA is to support and regulate aviation. That of the CAA is just to regulate. A subtle, but important difference.
G
N.B. Where have the stars gone?
N.B.B. Off subject, but I just got the latest AFE catalogue in the post. They have privately compiled and published a "UK AIM" and are advertising it for £15, perhaps the answer to everything is private enterprise!
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Tiger_Moth still at it?.
I actually stopped coming onto PPRUNE because of him, what a plonker!.
Get a licence, learn to fly, then comment, until just do us all a favour and shut the hell up!.
CAA taking a away a medical?,,,,, fully deserved, I actually failed a CAA medical, and glad I did so, if I had not had a pilots licence, I would never have found out about the problem I had, I would have been dead in 2 years, CAA medical showed the problem, after 4 months grounded and treatment I will now live and fly for 'decades' (CAA Doctors words), I now have my medical again and am happily flying, with a licence and a medical, unlike mr Tiger_Moth,,,,,,,,,!.
I actually stopped coming onto PPRUNE because of him, what a plonker!.
Get a licence, learn to fly, then comment, until just do us all a favour and shut the hell up!.
CAA taking a away a medical?,,,,, fully deserved, I actually failed a CAA medical, and glad I did so, if I had not had a pilots licence, I would never have found out about the problem I had, I would have been dead in 2 years, CAA medical showed the problem, after 4 months grounded and treatment I will now live and fly for 'decades' (CAA Doctors words), I now have my medical again and am happily flying, with a licence and a medical, unlike mr Tiger_Moth,,,,,,,,,!.
Hail Genghis (again!)
Must agree on the new AFE UK AIM....great idea. Should put in on disc so that we don't have to clog up the book shelves!
Sorry, Tiger, but have to say that you're a little bit out of your depth on this one. You can read all the books you like but you'll never understand how the CAA works!
Must agree though that the our Regulatory wizards are are a "touche" self-generating ...partly the fault of our JAA brethren...
but mostly self-perpetuating!
Must agree on the new AFE UK AIM....great idea. Should put in on disc so that we don't have to clog up the book shelves!
Sorry, Tiger, but have to say that you're a little bit out of your depth on this one. You can read all the books you like but you'll never understand how the CAA works!
Must agree though that the our Regulatory wizards are are a "touche" self-generating ...partly the fault of our JAA brethren...
but mostly self-perpetuating!
Just a quickie,Danny. I may be a bit dumb but how the hell do we edit out Typos on this new format now ???
Join Date: May 2001
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I’m afraid those who take comfort from the illusion that the CAA medical stops aircraft falling on their heads are misguided. Even the AAIB now admits, after undertaking its own statistical analysis, that there is no difference in pilot incapacitation rates between those types of flying which are exempt from CAA medicals, like gliding, and those where CAA medicals are required.
To quote Dr Peter Saundby, writing in a recent magazine article: “What the AAIB analysis did show was that the rigorous medical examinations applied to military and commercial pilots failed to prevent medical incapacity.”
He goes on to say: “Relatively few diseases are detectable before they become symptomatic and these should be monitored as part of the routine health care provided by the NHS. Even fewer of these diseases present a hazard to aviation.” His point is that certification by a pilot’s GP that he or she is fit to fly, without that doctor needing an expensive and coveted CAA license to make such a certification, would be infinitely better than the present bureaucratic nonsense, with its “political” blood tests and pointless groping.
As to Barbox, the chap who posted earlier about his medical having picked up a condition which if left unattended would have killed him, good for you, mate. But this organ of State is not there to force you to go to the doctor. One of these postings justifies the current system by saying: "It's kinda reassuring just before your 40th birthday to have the doctor rip off the ECG and say yup, that looks okay." So go to the doctor before you're 40, then. Take more responsibility for your own health, and save the rest of us some tens of millions of pounds, please.
PS: To the other chap - my light aircraft weighs less than a Mini and if it hit your house it would bounce off the roof. My HGV loads to 40 tonnes, and that would be a wholly different matter.
To quote Dr Peter Saundby, writing in a recent magazine article: “What the AAIB analysis did show was that the rigorous medical examinations applied to military and commercial pilots failed to prevent medical incapacity.”
He goes on to say: “Relatively few diseases are detectable before they become symptomatic and these should be monitored as part of the routine health care provided by the NHS. Even fewer of these diseases present a hazard to aviation.” His point is that certification by a pilot’s GP that he or she is fit to fly, without that doctor needing an expensive and coveted CAA license to make such a certification, would be infinitely better than the present bureaucratic nonsense, with its “political” blood tests and pointless groping.
As to Barbox, the chap who posted earlier about his medical having picked up a condition which if left unattended would have killed him, good for you, mate. But this organ of State is not there to force you to go to the doctor. One of these postings justifies the current system by saying: "It's kinda reassuring just before your 40th birthday to have the doctor rip off the ECG and say yup, that looks okay." So go to the doctor before you're 40, then. Take more responsibility for your own health, and save the rest of us some tens of millions of pounds, please.
PS: To the other chap - my light aircraft weighs less than a Mini and if it hit your house it would bounce off the roof. My HGV loads to 40 tonnes, and that would be a wholly different matter.
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Sleeve Wing,
To edit use the pencil and paper icon far right above the first line of your post. If you allow your mouse to hover over each icon a help caption should come up till you get used to them.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
To edit use the pencil and paper icon far right above the first line of your post. If you allow your mouse to hover over each icon a help caption should come up till you get used to them.
Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]
[ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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I wish I hadnt started such a controversial subject now. Even when I compromised you all just say how dumb I am. Barbox particularly seems to hate me! No matter what I say you all say I dont know anything. I admit I probably dont know as much as you and if you look at my last post I actually accepted many of your views.
Therefore Ill avoid saying anything controversial, like barbox said, because no one will ever agree. What do you mean you stopped coming here just because of me barbox? Im hardly ever here anymore. Anyway, sorry about that.
What is the rating system that someone (might have been genghis) spoke of? where do I see it? what does it mean? whats a vote do?
Therefore Ill avoid saying anything controversial, like barbox said, because no one will ever agree. What do you mean you stopped coming here just because of me barbox? Im hardly ever here anymore. Anyway, sorry about that.
What is the rating system that someone (might have been genghis) spoke of? where do I see it? what does it mean? whats a vote do?
Thanks, Rob.
Must be older( and more blind) than I thought! Didn't even notice it!
P.S. Is this your night job ???????
Rgds, Sleeve.
Must be older( and more blind) than I thought! Didn't even notice it!
P.S. Is this your night job ???????
Rgds, Sleeve.
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Tiger, its not controversial! Just remember that you are throwing your views at Professional Pilots with years of flying experience, even in the Private Pilot forum.
The CAA is an attractive topic for the start of a sensitive argument.
But lets base any anger on our experiences, if we havent flown before, it isnt cool to slag them off on the basis of a magazine article.
Yes we need the CAA`s help, but they need our help too.
Im not sure what the way forward is, AOPA seem more into offering help with insurance and technical issues, for owners and operators. If im wrong here than they need to change there marketing strategy as all the literature I have on them seems to be for people that own or operate there own aircraft. We need a body that is specific to GA and an interface between GA pilots and the CAA. Construcive and official meetings, to adress our issues on a National level.
Any suggestions?
If this warrants a new topic mr moderator then lets do it!!
Gotta go, Paris Orly you know.........
Kind Regards.
The CAA is an attractive topic for the start of a sensitive argument.
But lets base any anger on our experiences, if we havent flown before, it isnt cool to slag them off on the basis of a magazine article.
Yes we need the CAA`s help, but they need our help too.
Im not sure what the way forward is, AOPA seem more into offering help with insurance and technical issues, for owners and operators. If im wrong here than they need to change there marketing strategy as all the literature I have on them seems to be for people that own or operate there own aircraft. We need a body that is specific to GA and an interface between GA pilots and the CAA. Construcive and official meetings, to adress our issues on a National level.
Any suggestions?
If this warrants a new topic mr moderator then lets do it!!
Gotta go, Paris Orly you know.........
Kind Regards.
Without the CAA's support for our efforts, those of us working towards the introduction of the NPPL early next year would probably have got nowhere.
Incidentally, the CAA has now circulated their discussion paper on the NPPL which you will soon be able to read at http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/ga/ga_whatsnew.asp This is the first step in the mandatory process for ANO amendment to include the NPPL.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Incidentally, the CAA has now circulated their discussion paper on the NPPL which you will soon be able to read at http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/ga/ga_whatsnew.asp This is the first step in the mandatory process for ANO amendment to include the NPPL.
[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
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Hang on a minute. If it wasn't for the CAA's hasty and ill-considered decision to be first to adopt JAR there wouldn't be any need for an NPPL. What the hell were they thinking about? A smart plan would have been to sit back, let somebody else blunder into the mire, and learn from it, like our European neighbours have done. As to the NPPL, it's unlikely that the CAA is going to oppose something that means more bureaucracy and bigger empires, is it.
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I have no particular axe to grind with this argument, but...
Contrary to the last post, I do not believe that it was the CAA that strove to have the PPL included within JAR.
That honour goes to....... AOPA.
Happy to be told I'm wrong.
Contrary to the last post, I do not believe that it was the CAA that strove to have the PPL included within JAR.
That honour goes to....... AOPA.
Happy to be told I'm wrong.
The Original Whirly
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Tiger Moth,
Welcome to PPRuNe - 30,000+ people with different attitudes and opinions, and some with a tendency to flame anybody who posts anything that can even remotely be construed as controversial. It's not just you Tiger. It happens to all of us. The first time I got flamed on PPRuNe I ran away (for a day or two anyway). The next time I acted a bit like you're doing, and vowed to never post anything like that again. Eventually I just got used to it.
Welcome to PPRuNe - 30,000+ people with different attitudes and opinions, and some with a tendency to flame anybody who posts anything that can even remotely be construed as controversial. It's not just you Tiger. It happens to all of us. The first time I got flamed on PPRuNe I ran away (for a day or two anyway). The next time I acted a bit like you're doing, and vowed to never post anything like that again. Eventually I just got used to it.