What counts as 'advertisement'?
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What counts as 'advertisement'?
A few people at work who are aware I fly by word-of-mouth have asked me to take them up for pleasure flights and as it's a fairly large place I was going to put an article in the weekly newsletter, including the following statement:
"If anyone fancies a flight just let me know, fixed costs are covered so a contribution towards fuel will be fine."
Is this outside the rules or if it's within work premises is it ok to advertise in such circumstances (as long as you're paying proportionate costs)? As it's a fairly large place I'd hate some jobsworth to shop me to the CAA when I wasn't aware I was doing anything wrong!!
"If anyone fancies a flight just let me know, fixed costs are covered so a contribution towards fuel will be fine."
Is this outside the rules or if it's within work premises is it ok to advertise in such circumstances (as long as you're paying proportionate costs)? As it's a fairly large place I'd hate some jobsworth to shop me to the CAA when I wasn't aware I was doing anything wrong!!
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The CAA have published this as they are cracking down on illegal public transport.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1196/20071...PRCampaign.pdf
Why not just let the grapevine do your work for you? It works perfectly well for me. It stops you providing a prosecutor with a paper trail of your misdeeds.......
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1196/20071...PRCampaign.pdf
Why not just let the grapevine do your work for you? It works perfectly well for me. It stops you providing a prosecutor with a paper trail of your misdeeds.......
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Give them a certificate and a photo to commemorate the flight. I bet they put it on their desk. Its then not an advert but make sure your name and aircraft are prominent. This will start the word of mouth.
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There is no evidence the CAA give a damn about people doing this. What they go after is overt charter work i.e. competing with AOC holders.
The problem is that a lot of illegal charter does go on, and the people that do it are quite clever in pushing the boundaries of the regs. I read about some really funny exploits a while ago, which the CAA tried to prosecute but failed, despite it being totally obvious "AOC" work. So we can expect the CAA to bang on about this at every opportunity - they cannot be seen not doing that.
If you are getting the passenger to pay 50% of the cost of the flight, the only thing you are in violation of is the "advertising within club premises" rule which would be pretty far fetched to draw attention.
However, the thing which would worry me is insurance not paying out, and this is serious. You could face a Graham Hill situation if you had a prang. Traditionally this would be dealt with by there being no agreement on payment until after the flight has been concluded without incident, but if you publicise it like you propose, up front, the paper trail does exist. I wouldn't do it.
The problem is that a lot of illegal charter does go on, and the people that do it are quite clever in pushing the boundaries of the regs. I read about some really funny exploits a while ago, which the CAA tried to prosecute but failed, despite it being totally obvious "AOC" work. So we can expect the CAA to bang on about this at every opportunity - they cannot be seen not doing that.
If you are getting the passenger to pay 50% of the cost of the flight, the only thing you are in violation of is the "advertising within club premises" rule which would be pretty far fetched to draw attention.
However, the thing which would worry me is insurance not paying out, and this is serious. You could face a Graham Hill situation if you had a prang. Traditionally this would be dealt with by there being no agreement on payment until after the flight has been concluded without incident, but if you publicise it like you propose, up front, the paper trail does exist. I wouldn't do it.
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Thanks - agreed. I think I might just change it to say I have attained my licence and if anyone's interested in what it takes to gain their license feel free to drop me a line for advice. That along with some photo's of the works site that a colleague took while with me should get the message across that passengers are welcome though I'll make no reference to payment of any sort. Should be ok?
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I wouldn't rely on IO540's "the CAA couldn't give a damn approach" myself.
Article 267 in the ANO is what you have to comply with.
It says...
Public transport and aerial work – exceptions – cost sharing
267(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a flight is a private flight if:
(a) the only valuable consideration given or promised for the flight or the purpose of the flight is of a sort described in paragraph (2); and
(b) the criteria in paragraph (3) are satisfied.
(2) Valuable consideration is of a sort described in this paragraph if it is one or more of the following:
(a) valuable consideration specified in article 262(1);
(b) in the case of an aircraft owned in accordance with article 269(2), valuable consideration which falls within article 269(3); or
(c) a contribution to the direct costs of the flight otherwise payable by the pilot in command.
(3) The criteria in this paragraph are satisfied if:
(a) no more than four persons (including the pilot) are carried;
(b) the proportion which the contribution referred to in paragraph (2)(c) bears to the direct costs is not more than the proportion which the number of persons carried on the flight (excluding the pilot) bears to the number of persons carried (including the pilot);
(c) no information has been published or advertised before the commencement of the flight other than, in the case of an aircraft operated by a flying club, advertising wholly within the premises of such a flying club in which case all the persons carried on such a flight who are aged 18 years or over must be members of that flying club; and
(d) no person acting as a pilot is employed as a pilot by, or is a party to a contract for the provision of services as a pilot with, the operator of the aircraft which is being flown.
(4) If valuable consideration specified in article 262(1) is given or promised the flight is a public transport flight for the purposes of Part 3 and Part 4 (other than articles 37(2) and 39(2)).
Article 267 in the ANO is what you have to comply with.
It says...
Public transport and aerial work – exceptions – cost sharing
267(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a flight is a private flight if:
(a) the only valuable consideration given or promised for the flight or the purpose of the flight is of a sort described in paragraph (2); and
(b) the criteria in paragraph (3) are satisfied.
(2) Valuable consideration is of a sort described in this paragraph if it is one or more of the following:
(a) valuable consideration specified in article 262(1);
(b) in the case of an aircraft owned in accordance with article 269(2), valuable consideration which falls within article 269(3); or
(c) a contribution to the direct costs of the flight otherwise payable by the pilot in command.
(3) The criteria in this paragraph are satisfied if:
(a) no more than four persons (including the pilot) are carried;
(b) the proportion which the contribution referred to in paragraph (2)(c) bears to the direct costs is not more than the proportion which the number of persons carried on the flight (excluding the pilot) bears to the number of persons carried (including the pilot);
(c) no information has been published or advertised before the commencement of the flight other than, in the case of an aircraft operated by a flying club, advertising wholly within the premises of such a flying club in which case all the persons carried on such a flight who are aged 18 years or over must be members of that flying club; and
(d) no person acting as a pilot is employed as a pilot by, or is a party to a contract for the provision of services as a pilot with, the operator of the aircraft which is being flown.
(4) If valuable consideration specified in article 262(1) is given or promised the flight is a public transport flight for the purposes of Part 3 and Part 4 (other than articles 37(2) and 39(2)).
Item 3c above makes the assumption that people observing this within a flying club will be aware of the different levels of safety provided for public transport flights compared with private (club) type operation. They are then in a position to assess the risk for themselves and decide whether to fly with you or not.
If you advertise the flight at your work, people observing it may not be aware that a private flight does not enjoy the same level of oversight as a public transport flight and therefore may not be able to make a balanced judgment. That is why you are not allowed to publish details of such flights outside of a flying club. You can invite colleagues by word of mouth.
If you advertise the flight at your work, people observing it may not be aware that a private flight does not enjoy the same level of oversight as a public transport flight and therefore may not be able to make a balanced judgment. That is why you are not allowed to publish details of such flights outside of a flying club. You can invite colleagues by word of mouth.
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Given the horror story of the PA28-140 crash last year that blocked the West Coast mainline, you have to ask if the passengers know what they were getting into...??
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...PS%2010-09.pdf
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...PS%2010-09.pdf
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If you dropped the bit about "fixed costs are covered so a contribution towards fuel will be fine" and just said:
"I'm going flying on Saturday, anyone want to come along?" or "every weekend I go flying and I know some of you are interested. If you'd like to come along, give me a bell"
and then when they phone you say "sure the flight is free but you can contribute towards the fuel if you like, which will be about £50"
then that would be fine.
"I'm going flying on Saturday, anyone want to come along?" or "every weekend I go flying and I know some of you are interested. If you'd like to come along, give me a bell"
and then when they phone you say "sure the flight is free but you can contribute towards the fuel if you like, which will be about £50"
then that would be fine.
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Spot on.
There is nothing criminal in accepting a fair contribution to wards your costs, but that can all be sorted verbally. Try to avoid putting anything in writing ..
There is nothing criminal in accepting a fair contribution to wards your costs, but that can all be sorted verbally. Try to avoid putting anything in writing ..
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I would avoid doing something illegal verbally too.
None of this matters unless there is an accident, but if there is an accident, injured passengers (even if they are mates of yours!) are likely to lie if this means they get a bigger payout, and this is more than likely to happen because passenger liability hangs on establishing the pilot was negligent, and this is a lot easier to show if one can show the pilot was doing something illegal
A lawyer will be aware of this angle and will try to steer things in the appropriate direction which makes the pilot appear in the worst possible light.
None of this matters unless there is an accident, but if there is an accident, injured passengers (even if they are mates of yours!) are likely to lie if this means they get a bigger payout, and this is more than likely to happen because passenger liability hangs on establishing the pilot was negligent, and this is a lot easier to show if one can show the pilot was doing something illegal
A lawyer will be aware of this angle and will try to steer things in the appropriate direction which makes the pilot appear in the worst possible light.
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My opinion is that IO540 is right on here. Take your passengers flying, with no expectation of anything other than the reward of seeing their smiles. If they offer to cross your palm after the flight, that was their choice. If not, you were completely honourable and legal.
You do not want to be fussing with sharp lawyers on this subject after an accident, of if people are hurt! You will loose...
You do not want to be fussing with sharp lawyers on this subject after an accident, of if people are hurt! You will loose...
Something else you should consider is Insurance. What does your aircraft policy cover? Do passengers have to, for example become a club member to be covered? Many personal policies that passengers might have may not include flights in private aeroplanes. You as the pilot are in the firing line if anything goes wrong. If you want to take people flying, then do so but don't expect them to pay anything. If you go on a flight with a group of people from a flying club then they will reasonably expect to contribute. You might get a few free lunches and occasionally someone might make a contribution. The point being this is not the way to pay for your flying!
