Dreadful
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Dreadful
Not like me to whinge about fellow pilots but as I also posted elsewhere it was just dreaful today. In the space of 20 minutes pilot after pilot managed to infringe the temporary class A around Farnborough - the poor controller was pulling his hair out.
Dont most of us bother to read the NOTAMs any more?
Dont most of us bother to read the NOTAMs any more?
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People that don't read NOTAMs shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the controls of an aircraft! Wouldn't like to see one of these ignorant arses flying through the likes of a chunk blocked off for SAR operations or high-energy fighter jet training. 
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Notams
Might help a lot if they were more user friendly.
Point cursor at map,and the relevant Notams show up.
Is it that difficult to make it easier in these modern times?
Point cursor at map,and the relevant Notams show up.
Is it that difficult to make it easier in these modern times?
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Lister - it is that easy - there are plenty of graphical apps - even including for mobile phones. The temporary class A was clearly shown - the only way you could miss it is because you didnt look.
I have been a huge supporter of graphical interfaces and while it would still be helpful to see an "official" graphical interface, there are plenty of third party products around.
Sorry, but I just dont go with that excuse.
I have been a huge supporter of graphical interfaces and while it would still be helpful to see an "official" graphical interface, there are plenty of third party products around.
Sorry, but I just dont go with that excuse.
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Fuji-I'm not makling excuses,just a valid comment for me.
I have tried various sites and found them difficult,maybe I am not au fait with modern technology and need a hands on with a local pal.
I do ask local airfield re relevant Notams before I fly.
and I tend to fly localish flights.
Lister
I do ask local airfield re relevant Notams before I fly.
and I tend to fly localish flights.
Lister
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fuzzy it really does depend who it is.
They don't create SID's and STAR's though.
The access to the airspace is very very dependent on who's in the aircraft requiring class A and who is actually controlling at the time and if there is radar or not.
In my limited exerence which is a few years old now.
Any thing to do with American's and the whole lot gets locked down, men in black turn up in the tower and its very restricted even if you are IFR. You have no chance getting a sly SVFR clearance or taking a IFR clearance in the air. At my local field we used to get certain high ranking yanks coming to play golf.
Now Royal flights I won't go into details but they are alot more civilised and sensible in the application of class A and there is minimal fuss for all concerned. If you are on the apron near where the aircraft will park someone will come and have a chat and be very pleasant. If they ask you to do something, you will have no doudt that you will do as your told but they way they do it you really couldn't get annoyed. They are that slick as well any restrictions are done and dusted within 10 mins of the aircraft arriving. Where as a yank turning up can be a ball ache for 40 mins plus.
They don't create SID's and STAR's though.
The access to the airspace is very very dependent on who's in the aircraft requiring class A and who is actually controlling at the time and if there is radar or not.
In my limited exerence which is a few years old now.
Any thing to do with American's and the whole lot gets locked down, men in black turn up in the tower and its very restricted even if you are IFR. You have no chance getting a sly SVFR clearance or taking a IFR clearance in the air. At my local field we used to get certain high ranking yanks coming to play golf.
Now Royal flights I won't go into details but they are alot more civilised and sensible in the application of class A and there is minimal fuss for all concerned. If you are on the apron near where the aircraft will park someone will come and have a chat and be very pleasant. If they ask you to do something, you will have no doudt that you will do as your told but they way they do it you really couldn't get annoyed. They are that slick as well any restrictions are done and dusted within 10 mins of the aircraft arriving. Where as a yank turning up can be a ball ache for 40 mins plus.
Olivia is my friend!
The French narrow route NOTAM site is by far the easiest to use in my opinion and she doesn't mind at all whether you are going fom Dunkeswell to Rochester or Le Bourget to Nice.
The French narrow route NOTAM site is by far the easiest to use in my opinion and she doesn't mind at all whether you are going fom Dunkeswell to Rochester or Le Bourget to Nice.
It is frankly ridiculous in this day and age that the UK doesn't have an official graphic display of NOTAMs.
The abysmal NATS site is an utter pain to use; if you don't use one of your standard routes frequently enough for Big brother's liking, they delete it from the system.... Even when you do succeed in obtaining a list of NOTAMs, the detail is often not in a readily assimilated format.
The requirement needs to be user-defined, not something 'legal but useless' involving strings of lat/long values which people are supposed to plot out on a chart!
As a minimum, a CAA 1/2 mill chart of the entire UK FIR should be provided on-line, overlaid with all current NOTAMs (including a 'click to reveal detail' tab, a 'save to scratchpad' feature and an ability to print out the scratchpad). Even better if one could add pushpin waypoints to define a track, then specify the 'route width' within which NOTAM information is sought.
No doubt there'll be NATS-apologists along to say how good their system is, or to plead poverty, but the simple fact is that this is the 21st Century and that user-friendly graphic interfaces are the norm.
I'm sure that there are third-party applications which do this sort of thing; however, unless NATS provides an official system (or contracts the requirement to an official service provider), there will always be doubts about the accuracy of the information presented.
The abysmal NATS site is an utter pain to use; if you don't use one of your standard routes frequently enough for Big brother's liking, they delete it from the system.... Even when you do succeed in obtaining a list of NOTAMs, the detail is often not in a readily assimilated format.
The requirement needs to be user-defined, not something 'legal but useless' involving strings of lat/long values which people are supposed to plot out on a chart!
As a minimum, a CAA 1/2 mill chart of the entire UK FIR should be provided on-line, overlaid with all current NOTAMs (including a 'click to reveal detail' tab, a 'save to scratchpad' feature and an ability to print out the scratchpad). Even better if one could add pushpin waypoints to define a track, then specify the 'route width' within which NOTAM information is sought.
No doubt there'll be NATS-apologists along to say how good their system is, or to plead poverty, but the simple fact is that this is the 21st Century and that user-friendly graphic interfaces are the norm.
I'm sure that there are third-party applications which do this sort of thing; however, unless NATS provides an official system (or contracts the requirement to an official service provider), there will always be doubts about the accuracy of the information presented.
Lister
Try Googling Griffin Helicopters, I like the graphical stuff they do online for free but there are loads of others.
Here it is:
Griffin Helicopters | Notam Map
Try Googling Griffin Helicopters, I like the graphical stuff they do online for free but there are loads of others.
Here it is:
Griffin Helicopters | Notam Map
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I am not keen on the Griffin rendering.
It is slow to identify the NOTAM and does not really show the oeprative area.
Products such as NotamPlot do the job far better, are quick and easy to use, more the pity that they only cover the UK.
It is slow to identify the NOTAM and does not really show the oeprative area.
Products such as NotamPlot do the job far better, are quick and easy to use, more the pity that they only cover the UK.
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I know dozens of local PPLs at my base airfield who don't read NOTAMs prior to flight. I suspect the reason for this is that they perceive it as a dull, time consuming waste of their time that was perhaps only an activity to satisfy during their PPL training.
I agree with BEagle that if NATS presented graphical online access it may lessen how many ignore the system, but, without wanting to sound ageist, there are those I know of later years who "haven't checked them in the last 30 years and I've been ok so why should I start now? I only fly round the houses and back."
There are times I trawl through a narrow route brief off the NATS site and find it's mostly all guff about unlit cranes up to 100 feet etc. which is highly unlikely to affect my flight; it takes some repetition of reading NOTAM briefs to be able to filter out the less important stuff.
Remember, NOTAM briefs used to be a sheet of paper that hung off the flying club noticeboard; with more people flying privately and not being members of a club poor discipline can creep in and the process (or the online facility) is long forgotten.
I think the NATS system is fairly simple to use; it's just the lack of graphics that let it down.
I agree with BEagle that if NATS presented graphical online access it may lessen how many ignore the system, but, without wanting to sound ageist, there are those I know of later years who "haven't checked them in the last 30 years and I've been ok so why should I start now? I only fly round the houses and back."
There are times I trawl through a narrow route brief off the NATS site and find it's mostly all guff about unlit cranes up to 100 feet etc. which is highly unlikely to affect my flight; it takes some repetition of reading NOTAM briefs to be able to filter out the less important stuff.
Remember, NOTAM briefs used to be a sheet of paper that hung off the flying club noticeboard; with more people flying privately and not being members of a club poor discipline can creep in and the process (or the online facility) is long forgotten.
I think the NATS system is fairly simple to use; it's just the lack of graphics that let it down.
Last edited by Kiltie; 19th Jun 2010 at 12:31.
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Every morning I stick a pin in my 1:500,00O chart where every bit of notamed activity is taking place for that day.......so if your flying over Scotland give me a call " Scottish Info 119.875"and I will advise if anything is going to affect your route......after all thats what were here for......the service is free so for those that dont bother next time just give it a try..
When the NATS site flags up:
why isn't there an associated help feature? And what the heck is 'parsing a route'. No speako geeko!!
Also, why won't it accept, for example, SWB (Shawbury) as a waypoint? It knows about the SWB in Louisiana, but not the one in Shropshire, it seems. So you have to enter 5247N00239W.....or was it N5247W00239?
A UK route 'string' should be able to understand any published UK navaid included as a waypoint.
Error parsing route. Please enter a valid route string.
Also, why won't it accept, for example, SWB (Shawbury) as a waypoint? It knows about the SWB in Louisiana, but not the one in Shropshire, it seems. So you have to enter 5247N00239W.....or was it N5247W00239?
A UK route 'string' should be able to understand any published UK navaid included as a waypoint.
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fishbangwallop - "I will advise if anything is going to affect your route......after all thats what were here for.." Are you really an ATCO? That kind of talk is a bit unusual to an awful lot of pilots.
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Beags,
Because SWB VOR is a 'terminal' rather than 'en route' beacon (I've heard that as an excuse)? Playing around with that NATS app, it doesn't seem to recognise either the BZ or LA NDBs, or any of the TACANs, so maybe it's a Mil vs. Civil thing... I know you can't use ICAO references for airfields (if you insist on planning through airfield overheads).
Because SWB VOR is a 'terminal' rather than 'en route' beacon (I've heard that as an excuse)? Playing around with that NATS app, it doesn't seem to recognise either the BZ or LA NDBs, or any of the TACANs, so maybe it's a Mil vs. Civil thing... I know you can't use ICAO references for airfields (if you insist on planning through airfield overheads).
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.." Are you really an ATCO? That kind of talk is a bit unusual to an awful lot of pilots.
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Nope he is Scottish information and an AreaFISO.
Although I don't agree with his current comment about calling them up to get the notams. Notams Briefing is a preflight requirement.
Scottish information does exactly what it says on the tin. Be you at FL's needing wx actuals up north or a spam can enjoying life. They are nearly always a happy voice on the RT. They put student pilots at ease, as you see here encourage pilots to use the service. And I think pretty much all GA pilots use scottish info as a matter of course and I have never really heard a moan about the service in its area.
And to be honest its not unusal in the scottish FIR to have helpful ATCO's in my experence. Some times they get thier backsides bitten by being to helpfull and we end up with the thankfully rare situation that occur when biggles landed in a tree in Dundee.
Another thing that needs done to the notams is all the ones that have been active over a year get shot of and documented in AIS.
For example the one about the lack of high intensity lighting on Mount Eagle Mast has been active for longer than I have been flying.
Can we not rename you to Basic Information Service Traffic Officer then you can be a BISTO area? FIS
Although I don't agree with his current comment about calling them up to get the notams. Notams Briefing is a preflight requirement.
Scottish information does exactly what it says on the tin. Be you at FL's needing wx actuals up north or a spam can enjoying life. They are nearly always a happy voice on the RT. They put student pilots at ease, as you see here encourage pilots to use the service. And I think pretty much all GA pilots use scottish info as a matter of course and I have never really heard a moan about the service in its area.
And to be honest its not unusal in the scottish FIR to have helpful ATCO's in my experence. Some times they get thier backsides bitten by being to helpfull and we end up with the thankfully rare situation that occur when biggles landed in a tree in Dundee.
Another thing that needs done to the notams is all the ones that have been active over a year get shot of and documented in AIS.
For example the one about the lack of high intensity lighting on Mount Eagle Mast has been active for longer than I have been flying.
Can we not rename you to Basic Information Service Traffic Officer then you can be a BISTO area? FIS