terryfying or pleasant
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terryfying or pleasant
hi colleagues,
flying is my obsession, I dream about it every day and night, I can't think about something else, it is what my life decided.. .But unfortunately, maybe I'm not made for flying.. .Today, I was flying for the first time in controlled airspace and everthing went ok, till I had to go back to my airfield. It was vey busy at the airport and I couldn't make a a good conversation with the controllers. I wasn't able to make a normal conversation and sounded like a little child who was speaking his first words in life. It was very embarrising and I have the feeling flying is nothing for me at this moment. The only thing I can think at this moment is stopping with it. Disturb a message for somebody else or anwser a message for somebody else in a very busy controlled airspace is not what they want. There are limits and i think the limits are exceeded. What are your thoughts about it? Are some people not made for flying and what are the tolerations, student are not?. .Thank you for replying
flying is my obsession, I dream about it every day and night, I can't think about something else, it is what my life decided.. .But unfortunately, maybe I'm not made for flying.. .Today, I was flying for the first time in controlled airspace and everthing went ok, till I had to go back to my airfield. It was vey busy at the airport and I couldn't make a a good conversation with the controllers. I wasn't able to make a normal conversation and sounded like a little child who was speaking his first words in life. It was very embarrising and I have the feeling flying is nothing for me at this moment. The only thing I can think at this moment is stopping with it. Disturb a message for somebody else or anwser a message for somebody else in a very busy controlled airspace is not what they want. There are limits and i think the limits are exceeded. What are your thoughts about it? Are some people not made for flying and what are the tolerations, student are not?. .Thank you for replying
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Don't lose heart .. it was a very busy day today especially in the South East of England.
When returning to my local field today I had to orbit once when approaching the overhead, then three times on the deadside whilst trying to get an RT call in for clearance to descend. Aircraft coming from all directions, some uncertain about the procedures were descending deadside without permission (always upsets the ATC) and with all this going on there are others expecting to do circuits. Takes all the fun out of flying when its like that.
Try flying on weekdays when its less busy and build your confidence up.
When returning to my local field today I had to orbit once when approaching the overhead, then three times on the deadside whilst trying to get an RT call in for clearance to descend. Aircraft coming from all directions, some uncertain about the procedures were descending deadside without permission (always upsets the ATC) and with all this going on there are others expecting to do circuits. Takes all the fun out of flying when its like that.
Try flying on weekdays when its less busy and build your confidence up.
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drum,
It was just as busy Thursday & Friday too, best days of good weather we've had all year. so of course everyone took to the skies. My home airfield was like a graveyard as everyone had gone off to France or just for a jaunt along the coast. I was very nervous when making my first calls on the radio to Biggin Hill. Best tip I've been given is take a couple of deep breaths, form the message together in your head, press the transmitter and then send the message. Anyone who mocks you for being nervous when speaking to ATC has surely forgotten what it was like during their early stages of training.
It was just as busy Thursday & Friday too, best days of good weather we've had all year. so of course everyone took to the skies. My home airfield was like a graveyard as everyone had gone off to France or just for a jaunt along the coast. I was very nervous when making my first calls on the radio to Biggin Hill. Best tip I've been given is take a couple of deep breaths, form the message together in your head, press the transmitter and then send the message. Anyone who mocks you for being nervous when speaking to ATC has surely forgotten what it was like during their early stages of training.
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Don't lose heart - it happens to us all.
Thursday and Friday in the UK was the best weather we've had since winter. The result was that everyone with a pilots licence tried to get airborne.
Now picture the scene on the other side of the microphone. An ATCO who has held a radar rating for a week, at a busy LARS unit doing that as well as arrivals and departures. It was an eye-opener for me and bloody hard work. And at the end of the day I thought the same as you - for a millisecond! It was still something I enjoyed, even if I was working the hardest that I possibly have in my entire working life.
So the answer is NOT to give up - imagine if I felt like that after that sort of day. The answer is to analyse what you did wrong and learn from your mistakes. We're all only human after all.
Stick with it my friend
CM
Thursday and Friday in the UK was the best weather we've had since winter. The result was that everyone with a pilots licence tried to get airborne.
Now picture the scene on the other side of the microphone. An ATCO who has held a radar rating for a week, at a busy LARS unit doing that as well as arrivals and departures. It was an eye-opener for me and bloody hard work. And at the end of the day I thought the same as you - for a millisecond! It was still something I enjoyed, even if I was working the hardest that I possibly have in my entire working life.
So the answer is NOT to give up - imagine if I felt like that after that sort of day. The answer is to analyse what you did wrong and learn from your mistakes. We're all only human after all.
Stick with it my friend
CM
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Don't lose heart, most of us have been in an overload situation and you being a low hours pilot, maintaining control of the airplane is your first consideration. It does get easier with practice though.
Aviate, navigate and then communicate!
Aviate, navigate and then communicate!
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Chili:
Your post was food for thought. I'd never considered the problems of a new atco before, I guess it isn't usually obvious. BTW, my experience is that the Bristol team are amongst the most GA friendly in the UK, whether LARS service or app/ad. However, pity Bristol's training prices (for visitors, at least) are so high.
Drum:
All pilot's, I'm sure remember their first attempts at RT. Don't be afraid or embarrassed, only fools will laugh. Don't let communication problems interfere with your flying of the aircraft. Good luck.
Regards
Your post was food for thought. I'd never considered the problems of a new atco before, I guess it isn't usually obvious. BTW, my experience is that the Bristol team are amongst the most GA friendly in the UK, whether LARS service or app/ad. However, pity Bristol's training prices (for visitors, at least) are so high.
Drum:
All pilot's, I'm sure remember their first attempts at RT. Don't be afraid or embarrassed, only fools will laugh. Don't let communication problems interfere with your flying of the aircraft. Good luck.
Regards
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Dont worry about it, RT will come eventually until it does share the RT calls with the nice instructor who sits in the right seat. I had real problems with RT until I got a special PTT switch but I have a really understanding instructor who helps. It was so frustrating knowing what to say but not being able to because pushing the button as the drop of a hat wasnt possible so somone else always got in before you managed to connect. Thankfully that diffuculty has gone now.
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Drum - don't worry mate. I'm crap on the RT and I have a VHF licence for sailing - it's natural to feel intimidated. I do and it's because I have become used to nautical terminology and get vaguely embarrassed at the terminology used for flying - you would be laughed at down on the Solent if you said "wilco".....
Just practice all of the common phraseology and calls that you would make whilst driving your car or in non flying situations so that it becomes second nature.
Good Luck.
Just practice all of the common phraseology and calls that you would make whilst driving your car or in non flying situations so that it becomes second nature.
Good Luck.
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thanks to all of you. .Saturday, doubts were in my mind. When you hear lots of pilots communicate with the controllers without any problem it seems very easy. But then it is your turn, you push the button, you want to say what you have to say but.....for one or another reason it doesn't come out your mouth, you are cofused and then you begin to talk when you have to hold your tongue.I suppose that reason will be the nerves. . .It would be a good solution to fly on weekdays as it want less busy. I really believe most of us had difficulties in the beginning but your own mistakes always seems to be more awful.. .On the first good weather-day i'll try it again. A bad day isn't a bad year.. .regards Drum
When I was doing my PPL my RT was appalling (some say it still is 
). My mistakes were :
1. Starting to speak as I pressed the PTT thus clipping the beginning of the message.
2. Speaking too quietly
3. Releasing the PTT as I was finishing the message thus clipping the end of the message.
Belated apologies to Southampton ATC <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
The whole thing basically stemmed from being unsure of what I was supposed to be saying.
The clipping was cured when I started to repeat to myself what I was going to say before I said it. The quiet speaking was cured when my instructor reminded me that I was loud enough in the bar so there was nothing wrong with my throat
It is the ONLY bar habit I take into the cockpit with me. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
After saying all that, I still stumble over a call occasionally. Is there anybody who doesn't out there? Liars
). My mistakes were :1. Starting to speak as I pressed the PTT thus clipping the beginning of the message.
2. Speaking too quietly
3. Releasing the PTT as I was finishing the message thus clipping the end of the message.
Belated apologies to Southampton ATC <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
The whole thing basically stemmed from being unsure of what I was supposed to be saying.
The clipping was cured when I started to repeat to myself what I was going to say before I said it. The quiet speaking was cured when my instructor reminded me that I was loud enough in the bar so there was nothing wrong with my throat
It is the ONLY bar habit I take into the cockpit with me. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
After saying all that, I still stumble over a call occasionally. Is there anybody who doesn't out there? Liars
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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drum,
I am a PPL with about 240hrs - I still find that I sometimes mess up a RT conversation. It is almost always if I'm tired after a journey or making a call I'm less familiar with (ie some instrument approach procedures). <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . .I find a few things useful, though: 1. Keep some prompts handy (ie on your kneepad) of standard calls such as the TRPACER call, 2. If you realise you have badly messed a transmission up then correct it calmly - this re-installs confidence otherwise lost.. .You will find with the prompts handy that you'll be more at ease & less likely to go wrong during the call. Remember that readbacks tend to involve standard items (QNH, runway in use, etc) so do note them down as they are received.. .Above all, remember that flying the 'plane is always top priority. If after a couple of attempts you are struggling to understand what ATC is trying to get across to you (as is not unusual during joining procedures) then use plain English. They will appreciate the situation & be pleased that you have used the initiative to do so rather than allow a possible dangerous situation to form. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Good Luck, much of the fun comes from mastering these sort of things. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I am a PPL with about 240hrs - I still find that I sometimes mess up a RT conversation. It is almost always if I'm tired after a journey or making a call I'm less familiar with (ie some instrument approach procedures). <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . .I find a few things useful, though: 1. Keep some prompts handy (ie on your kneepad) of standard calls such as the TRPACER call, 2. If you realise you have badly messed a transmission up then correct it calmly - this re-installs confidence otherwise lost.. .You will find with the prompts handy that you'll be more at ease & less likely to go wrong during the call. Remember that readbacks tend to involve standard items (QNH, runway in use, etc) so do note them down as they are received.. .Above all, remember that flying the 'plane is always top priority. If after a couple of attempts you are struggling to understand what ATC is trying to get across to you (as is not unusual during joining procedures) then use plain English. They will appreciate the situation & be pleased that you have used the initiative to do so rather than allow a possible dangerous situation to form. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Good Luck, much of the fun comes from mastering these sort of things. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Try and scab a ride with somebody at the weekend going somewhere busy and offer to do the radio for them, or sit and watch what goes on. It's all very good exposure. Just like backseating during training really, the more exposure the better.
sB
sB
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Drum
I learnt to fly 10 years ago, and was absolutely hopeless on the radio. Some may still think I am, but back then my very patient instructor suggested I write myself a little crib sheet, with spaces for the variables - a/c reg, ATIS code, runway in use etc, etc. It worked and after a bit I didn't use it. I still find the radio intimidating if I have not been flying for some time, but just think carefully through what I have to say, run it thru' in my head a couple of times, then happily muck it up on the radio and reckon that no one is perfect!
Don't give up, its definintely worth all the effort in the long run. Good Luck
I learnt to fly 10 years ago, and was absolutely hopeless on the radio. Some may still think I am, but back then my very patient instructor suggested I write myself a little crib sheet, with spaces for the variables - a/c reg, ATIS code, runway in use etc, etc. It worked and after a bit I didn't use it. I still find the radio intimidating if I have not been flying for some time, but just think carefully through what I have to say, run it thru' in my head a couple of times, then happily muck it up on the radio and reckon that no one is perfect!
Don't give up, its definintely worth all the effort in the long run. Good Luck
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Drum, I fly professionally both as an instructor and airline jockie. I can tell I have bad RT days once a week! You really need to worry when you are like me and forget you are not flying but instead at the newsagent being asked "would you like a bag with that sir", and the response being "Affirm". You get some right funny looks!!!. .Or on the phone and saying "Standby One".. .Once the flying is sorted mate and you can relax with that, the radio will just slowly slot into place. When you make a cockup, just laugh it off. Because the more you fly the more you'll realise there are a lot of people doing just the same as you are now, and they probably fly for a living! Then you can privately laugh at them without them knowing!!
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I was absolutely terrified of the radio and incapable of using it sensibly until I went flying with a PPL with years and years of experience. He was just so laid back on the radio. It wasn't that he was good - he made mistakes, forgot what to say, misheard things, but just didn't get bothered by any of it. So the ATCOs didn't either.
That was the beginning of my learning to relax on the radio. And once I stopped panicking, people on the other end stopped getting upset. Or if they did get annoyed, I didn't worry about it. I've even been known to retaliate if ATCOs are rude to me, and I'd never have dared do that back then. Not that I'm recommending a slanging match over the radio, you understand.
It takes time, but don't worry, like everything else in aviation, it'll come.
That was the beginning of my learning to relax on the radio. And once I stopped panicking, people on the other end stopped getting upset. Or if they did get annoyed, I didn't worry about it. I've even been known to retaliate if ATCOs are rude to me, and I'd never have dared do that back then. Not that I'm recommending a slanging match over the radio, you understand.
It takes time, but don't worry, like everything else in aviation, it'll come.
