Advantages of having a PPL?
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Advantages of having a PPL?
I'm nearly 15 and am trying to persuade my parents into letting me have flying lessons- a trial lesson at least- and mum asked "Why would a 14 year old want to fly?" i thought it was a stupid question as everyone is saying it's fun but I need better reasons to get her to let me have lessons. Is there anything that they will get out of me having a license? I know when i'm old enough I can take people flying but is it more expensive to hire a small plane than go on holiday on a 'normal' plane? also, can I fly anywhere over Europe or do I need to get a better lisence? I'd be grateful if anyone can help! x
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Hannah, yes you can take others flying all over Europe. All over the world in fact, as long as fly in a combination of PPL plus aircraft which is valid. But no, it will generally not be cheaper than taking a commercial aircraft, or a car, or any other form of transport. A PPL is to a very large extent a "fun" license, and only very few of us are able to get some serious practical use out of it - and this generally requires your own plane. (I'm sure IO540 will be along shortly...)
So to be honest, I cannot offer you any argument why your parents *should* pay your flying lessons. In fact, I don't think parents should pay for flying lessons at all, unless, arguably, you're aspiring to be a commercial pilot. But if you just want to fly for fun, get a job and pay for them yourself. That's how most of us did it. (But to be honest, most of the PPLs here started in their 30s or so.)
So to be honest, I cannot offer you any argument why your parents *should* pay your flying lessons. In fact, I don't think parents should pay for flying lessons at all, unless, arguably, you're aspiring to be a commercial pilot. But if you just want to fly for fun, get a job and pay for them yourself. That's how most of us did it. (But to be honest, most of the PPLs here started in their 30s or so.)
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Totally agree with the above, there is no practical advantage like there is having a driving licence which allows you to drive every day. Flying for most PPLs is just for the fun of it. That said, if you/your parents can afford to pay for it, it's a priviledge that few get and worth the effort.
One thing I would say though - obtaining your PPL is certainly not as easy as a driving licence for example, expect much hard studying and head banging.
One thing I would say though - obtaining your PPL is certainly not as easy as a driving licence for example, expect much hard studying and head banging.
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Why not turn the tables and buy them a flying lesson or trial flight?
It will demonstrate a level of commitment on your part in (presumably) saving up for the what for a 14 year old is probably not an inconsiderable amount of money, and in all likelyhood will show them why flying is sooooo much fun!
The risk of course is they they get hooked themself :-(
It will demonstrate a level of commitment on your part in (presumably) saving up for the what for a 14 year old is probably not an inconsiderable amount of money, and in all likelyhood will show them why flying is sooooo much fun!
The risk of course is they they get hooked themself :-(
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K then that doesn't really help 
but I am saving money to pay for lessons and as I only have a papereound it'll take a long time to pay for just 1. I'm thinking of applying for a scholarship but mum and dad don't seem to eant me to do that either- they think it would be pointless. And yes I think I do want to be a commercial pilot- it sounds really good but I won't know for sure whether I really want to fly until I have a trial lesson first I guess. X
but I am saving money to pay for lessons and as I only have a papereound it'll take a long time to pay for just 1. I'm thinking of applying for a scholarship but mum and dad don't seem to eant me to do that either- they think it would be pointless. And yes I think I do want to be a commercial pilot- it sounds really good but I won't know for sure whether I really want to fly until I have a trial lesson first I guess. X
Why not join the Air Cadets, and show your parents a commitment to an interest in flying. You may also get the chance to do some gliding or air experience flying.
You are 14, time is on your side.
Air Cadets - Find a squadron
You are 14, time is on your side.
Air Cadets - Find a squadron
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Getting your licence requires a solid commitment on your part in terms of both money (as you alread know) and time - there's a lot to learn. The advantage of having a PPL, especially at a young age, is that it demonstrates you're able to put in that kind of commitment. A lot of people give up part way through their flight training but if you can set yourself, and meet, a goal of getting your PPL then I'd say that's a great thing, regardless of whether you go on to fly for a living.
The key thing you need to do, in my opinion, is demonstrate your commitment by keeping at it, even if it takes you a long time to save up the money or obtain a scholarship. If you're near an airfield try seeing if the local flying club or school wants some help (cleaning planes or whatever). The pay will be somewhere between dreadful and zero but you'll be around aircraft and pilots, you'll get noticed and the chances are that as people get to know you you'll score the occasional free ride as a reward for your work. Air Cadets is another good suggestion.
If you really want it you'll find a way to get it. It just won't necessarily be easy or quick.
The key thing you need to do, in my opinion, is demonstrate your commitment by keeping at it, even if it takes you a long time to save up the money or obtain a scholarship. If you're near an airfield try seeing if the local flying club or school wants some help (cleaning planes or whatever). The pay will be somewhere between dreadful and zero but you'll be around aircraft and pilots, you'll get noticed and the chances are that as people get to know you you'll score the occasional free ride as a reward for your work. Air Cadets is another good suggestion.
If you really want it you'll find a way to get it. It just won't necessarily be easy or quick.
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Learning to fly is a great achievement, and you can use it to really easily go to places where you would never bother to go otherwise because it would be so much hassle (like, northern France). Seeing Europe from the air is also great; particularly the mountains.
I have a 14 year old son who is mad keen on flying.
You can start loggins lessons at 14 but they will be partly wasted unless you are committed and not messing around like my son would do if he started now
I have a 14 year old son who is mad keen on flying.
You can start loggins lessons at 14 but they will be partly wasted unless you are committed and not messing around like my son would do if he started now
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Arguments for parents...
Hi,
your parents won't seen any benefits. If they inform themselves, they'll realize, that it's a very very costly and - from some points of view - sometimes even a dangerous enterprise. Even more for a 15yr old.
BUT
...it will keep this non-spoiled kid...
- away from alcohol. Why? If you're going for a PPL, you would never jeopardize it for alcohol, would you?
- away from drugs. Why? Same argument, even worse: you would never even try drugs - which are easily detected on a medical in your hair, your blood, your...
- away from speeding in cars or motorcycles. You don't want to lose your health nor your licence for SPEEDING, do you?
- away from bad influences. Why? Like da Vinci said, once you've flown, you'll think differently. This may sound esoterical, new-age or whatever, but it's a fact: once been in a real 3-dimensional environment, everything on the ground is second-best...
- on its track to a good and well-earned education. Why? There are two tracks for you, once you realize how costly that dream of you is: Either you decide to get a _good_ job (with a good education before, mostly that is) or you go the aviation track - aiming for an ATP and/or a degree in aviation.
Don't try arguments like "this is fun", or "it may be cheaper after investing xx.xxxx,- bugs into this idea of my juvenile brain" or something. First of all, your parents want you to grow up - to get a good life. To LIVE SAFELY.
Tell them what you're willing to do for that what you aim for. Tell them that it IS costly, but it will help you to survive the next ten years or so - without alcoholics, drugs, driving car like Mario Andretti (try wikipedia for this name ;-) )
You get it? I hope sincerely, your parents do the math with the inherent risk of aviation against the benefits and "achievements" your altered state of mind (juvenile despair?) ... they'll at least give it a try.
Kind regards,
Peter
your parents won't seen any benefits. If they inform themselves, they'll realize, that it's a very very costly and - from some points of view - sometimes even a dangerous enterprise. Even more for a 15yr old.
BUT
...it will keep this non-spoiled kid...
- away from alcohol. Why? If you're going for a PPL, you would never jeopardize it for alcohol, would you?
- away from drugs. Why? Same argument, even worse: you would never even try drugs - which are easily detected on a medical in your hair, your blood, your...
- away from speeding in cars or motorcycles. You don't want to lose your health nor your licence for SPEEDING, do you?
- away from bad influences. Why? Like da Vinci said, once you've flown, you'll think differently. This may sound esoterical, new-age or whatever, but it's a fact: once been in a real 3-dimensional environment, everything on the ground is second-best...
- on its track to a good and well-earned education. Why? There are two tracks for you, once you realize how costly that dream of you is: Either you decide to get a _good_ job (with a good education before, mostly that is) or you go the aviation track - aiming for an ATP and/or a degree in aviation.
Don't try arguments like "this is fun", or "it may be cheaper after investing xx.xxxx,- bugs into this idea of my juvenile brain" or something. First of all, your parents want you to grow up - to get a good life. To LIVE SAFELY.
Tell them what you're willing to do for that what you aim for. Tell them that it IS costly, but it will help you to survive the next ten years or so - without alcoholics, drugs, driving car like Mario Andretti (try wikipedia for this name ;-) )
You get it? I hope sincerely, your parents do the math with the inherent risk of aviation against the benefits and "achievements" your altered state of mind (juvenile despair?) ... they'll at least give it a try.
Kind regards,
Peter
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ummm iwrbf- were you being sarcastic about me being 'non spoiled' ? cus I'm definetly not spoiled. And I'm also real sensible so drugs and drinking and speeding wouldn't really be a good argument for my parents- they know i won't do that anyway.
Yes I do plan to go to sixth form and get a better job but thats not for 2 years yet.
I went to first aid cadets and did a leadership course there- is that important?
I live about 30 mins from an airfield but I won't be able to go often as I do lots of things after school and mum and dad both work full time so I don't think I could get there but if I could would just hanging around be useful for me? Wouldn't I just annoy people?! I'm a quick learner so i could teach myself if all of the information for the theory stuff is on the internet or in books as it seems expensive for the theory lessons as well. I do really want to do it I don't think I'd quit either it seems to much fun! x
Yes I do plan to go to sixth form and get a better job but thats not for 2 years yet.
I went to first aid cadets and did a leadership course there- is that important?
I live about 30 mins from an airfield but I won't be able to go often as I do lots of things after school and mum and dad both work full time so I don't think I could get there but if I could would just hanging around be useful for me? Wouldn't I just annoy people?! I'm a quick learner so i could teach myself if all of the information for the theory stuff is on the internet or in books as it seems expensive for the theory lessons as well. I do really want to do it I don't think I'd quit either it seems to much fun! x
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Advantage, scaring the s**t out of your friends and family..
Its a hobbie for most people and an expensive 1. Aviation is a big pot that you keep putting money into so for my kids, id be seeking a cheaper hobbie unless i get 6 & the bonus ball :-)
Its a hobbie for most people and an expensive 1. Aviation is a big pot that you keep putting money into so for my kids, id be seeking a cheaper hobbie unless i get 6 & the bonus ball :-)
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I think people are missing the point here lol
Initially PPL is basically a rather expensive hobby lol. I have thrown about 7000 at my PPL so far, and I am almost complete. But dont let that deter you I think it has been worth every penny. I would definatly go for a trial lesson anyways and see how it goes :-) I did a trial lesson when I was 11 and have never really looked back since then :-) . As for the "getting something out of the licence" well there isnt really that much you can gain from a PPL, itll look amaizing on your CV (especially for a 17 year old the minimum for a licence) but it will still be expensive to hire an aircraft for trips etc. The cheapest you could get would be a PA28 for about £95 per hour, and then split the cost between 4 of you (about 23 pounds) , an hour of flying may get you somewhere worthwile and probably slightly cheaper than the train, but a hell of a lot more exciting :-)
Ewan :-)
Initially PPL is basically a rather expensive hobby lol. I have thrown about 7000 at my PPL so far, and I am almost complete. But dont let that deter you I think it has been worth every penny. I would definatly go for a trial lesson anyways and see how it goes :-) I did a trial lesson when I was 11 and have never really looked back since then :-) . As for the "getting something out of the licence" well there isnt really that much you can gain from a PPL, itll look amaizing on your CV (especially for a 17 year old the minimum for a licence) but it will still be expensive to hire an aircraft for trips etc. The cheapest you could get would be a PA28 for about £95 per hour, and then split the cost between 4 of you (about 23 pounds) , an hour of flying may get you somewhere worthwile and probably slightly cheaper than the train, but a hell of a lot more exciting :-)
Ewan :-)
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Ok thanks. Me n mum talked abut and she decides it's now too dangerous with crashing and oil leaks etc. So I said way more cars crash than airplanes. Was I right? Are airplanes just as safe as cars? Also she still thinks nearly 15 is too young but you said you flew at 11. Did you get to try the se stuff then as now? Or because your older do you get to do more? X
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Are airplanes just as safe as cars?
My usual answer is to pick on the analysis that says that flying little aeroplanes is about as dangerous as riding motorbikes (which is rather more dangerous than driving cars).
However I then point out that most pilots who die do so as a result of their own actions, whereas most motorcyclists who die do so because of some other loony on the road. There is therefore an opportunity to tilt the odds in your favour - sure, the "average" pilot is at as much risk as the motorcyclist, but I'm a better bet than the "average" pilot, because I read all the accident reports and I choose not to kill myself in the most common ways (having unrealistic views of what I can and can't cope with, taking off in weather I can't cope with, taking off without enough fuel for the trip, failing to turn around when things get "interesting", doing aeros over my girlfriend's house, and so on).
Trouble is ... pretty well everyone says that, and I know enough statistics to know that we can't all really be better than average.
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Hannah222,
sarcasm is counter-productive, not my style.
I don't care about your interest in drugs, speeding, alcohol NOW - I just gave you some good arguments for your mom. Make clear, that your FUTURE will stay clean of this stuff IF... see?
Read it again, think about _arguments_, not about me making fun about you or trying to be sarcastic...
Kind regards,
Peter
sarcasm is counter-productive, not my style.
I don't care about your interest in drugs, speeding, alcohol NOW - I just gave you some good arguments for your mom. Make clear, that your FUTURE will stay clean of this stuff IF... see?
Read it again, think about _arguments_, not about me making fun about you or trying to be sarcastic...
Kind regards,
Peter
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I am not sure if it is more dangerous than driving a car. Sure there is far more that can go wrong with an aircraft, but aircraft have FAR stricter safety requirements, an aircraft is inspected every day before it flies, and at least every 50 hours, compare that to a service/MOT. I guess it depends on viewpoints or statistics...
I flew when I was 11 but they would only let me fly in a 4 seater with my dad in the back for insurance reasons as I was so young back then. I coudnt log any hours till I was 14, and I needed to save up the money to pay for the lessons, hence why I have only done it when I am at uni (also due to the poor choice of flying clubs in Cumbria.)
I was a member of the Air Cadets as well so I did some flying with them , including a gliding scholorship (highly recommended if you have the chance.)
Ewan :-)
I flew when I was 11 but they would only let me fly in a 4 seater with my dad in the back for insurance reasons as I was so young back then. I coudnt log any hours till I was 14, and I needed to save up the money to pay for the lessons, hence why I have only done it when I am at uni (also due to the poor choice of flying clubs in Cumbria.)
I was a member of the Air Cadets as well so I did some flying with them , including a gliding scholorship (highly recommended if you have the chance.)
Ewan :-)
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There are two sides to this debate
1) The tangible benefits
The ability to travel quickly to interesting places
A potential career in civil or military aviation
2) The Intangible benefits
Will give you confidence in yourself
A means of education
Joining a network of like-minded air-minded individuals
We all think that once we've got our licences we can do amazing trips, but the reality is that we don't. It costs too much and the commercial airlines are so much cheaper and more reliable.
My parents were really supportive to me in my years of aviation, funding me through some really difficult periods, because they knew how much it meant to me. Yes they were worried about the perceived dangers but their attitude was that they didn't want their children wrapped in cotton wool
Life is for living and our time is short, and for me aviation has been my life. Without it I'd have been a shadow of what I am (and probably still married)
1) The tangible benefits
The ability to travel quickly to interesting places
A potential career in civil or military aviation
2) The Intangible benefits
Will give you confidence in yourself
A means of education
Joining a network of like-minded air-minded individuals
We all think that once we've got our licences we can do amazing trips, but the reality is that we don't. It costs too much and the commercial airlines are so much cheaper and more reliable.
My parents were really supportive to me in my years of aviation, funding me through some really difficult periods, because they knew how much it meant to me. Yes they were worried about the perceived dangers but their attitude was that they didn't want their children wrapped in cotton wool
Life is for living and our time is short, and for me aviation has been my life. Without it I'd have been a shadow of what I am (and probably still married)
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Hannah, even if you don't become a professional pilot, learning to fly will teach you important skills for success in your future life:
- you learn not only to plan strategically and proactively, but also to optimise your plans in real time, making small adaptations as you go;
- you learn to process several streams of information in parallel and verify them against each other.
These skills are especially valuable if you ever decide to run your own business.
- you learn not only to plan strategically and proactively, but also to optimise your plans in real time, making small adaptations as you go;
- you learn to process several streams of information in parallel and verify them against each other.
These skills are especially valuable if you ever decide to run your own business.
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Given your age, your eagerness is forgivable ;-) Perhaps what you don't really have a handle on is really how expensive it is this hobby. And it is that, both expensive and a hobby. Your parents may simply not be able to afford it. It really is very expensive.
Show a real interest, drag your family to airshows, go plane watching at your local airport, get books from your library and learn the theory backwards frontwards and sideways, get flight sim or similar ( Google FlightGear for a very good and totally free sim) and fly the pants out of it because it's better than nothing (and don't just jump into the 747, do it properly, use a light single aircraft, follow checklists, put your mind in the cockpit and LEARN don't play), and if you at all can, find your nearest airfield where light aircraft fly from (microlights, sport aircraft, whatever) get on your bike or drag a parent and go there at every opportunity, talk to the people, look at the aircraft, help out about the place, get your hands dirty.
Show a real interest, drag your family to airshows, go plane watching at your local airport, get books from your library and learn the theory backwards frontwards and sideways, get flight sim or similar ( Google FlightGear for a very good and totally free sim) and fly the pants out of it because it's better than nothing (and don't just jump into the 747, do it properly, use a light single aircraft, follow checklists, put your mind in the cockpit and LEARN don't play), and if you at all can, find your nearest airfield where light aircraft fly from (microlights, sport aircraft, whatever) get on your bike or drag a parent and go there at every opportunity, talk to the people, look at the aircraft, help out about the place, get your hands dirty.