First flight to UK
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First flight to UK
Hi all,
Finally my first post after years of reading good usable advices from a lot of PPRuNers
Well, I'm planning towards my first flight to the UK but still have some questions about the paperwork required.
I'm intending to fly from my local club to Ostend (EBOS) and from there to Damyns Hall (EGML). There's no problem regarding paperwork or prior notification at Ostend as they have customs service which is required before flying to an UK airfield but Damyns Hall on the other hand has according to the AIP customs and immigration service by arrangement. Also not really a problem but I'm in doubt what papers I have to send and to who just as which agencies I have to contact. I have leafed through the AIP and many websites of guys with this kind of experience but I'm not yet sure I get it.
So, you have customs, immigration and special branch agencies and the GAR form which in my opinion must be used to inform these agencies. If I understand it correctly you just forward the GAR to the NCU at least 4 hours in advance of your arrival via email [email protected] and check on the number 0870 785 3600 whether it is accepted. NCU will forward the GAR to all the involved agencies.Right?
After Damyns Hall I'm planning to fly to Le Touquet where customs facilities are available and which you have to notify of your arrival 2 hours before ETA by email or fax. In the UK for outward flights to EU countries there is no obligation to advice customs of your departure. May I understand this as I can depart from EGML to LFAT with just sending the flight plan and informing LFAT customs of my arrival and that's it?
I have also signed up with NATS so I will be able to send a flight plan when returning back to the mainland and found these numbers to check whether the flight plan is accepted: 0845 6010483 or 01489 612792.
Also paid attention to the reference guide to UK phraseologie as it seems that this subject also differs a little from what I'm used to. By the way, really a very good reference to read.
It's for me probably even excited as it is for UK guys who also want to cross the channel in opposite direction for the first time so you will certainly understand I would like to be somewhat prepared so I can enjoy the trip.
So in case I have made a mistake somewhere or there is still something important missing, please let me know. Your help would be highly appreciated.
Finally my first post after years of reading good usable advices from a lot of PPRuNers
Well, I'm planning towards my first flight to the UK but still have some questions about the paperwork required.
I'm intending to fly from my local club to Ostend (EBOS) and from there to Damyns Hall (EGML). There's no problem regarding paperwork or prior notification at Ostend as they have customs service which is required before flying to an UK airfield but Damyns Hall on the other hand has according to the AIP customs and immigration service by arrangement. Also not really a problem but I'm in doubt what papers I have to send and to who just as which agencies I have to contact. I have leafed through the AIP and many websites of guys with this kind of experience but I'm not yet sure I get it.
So, you have customs, immigration and special branch agencies and the GAR form which in my opinion must be used to inform these agencies. If I understand it correctly you just forward the GAR to the NCU at least 4 hours in advance of your arrival via email [email protected] and check on the number 0870 785 3600 whether it is accepted. NCU will forward the GAR to all the involved agencies.Right?
After Damyns Hall I'm planning to fly to Le Touquet where customs facilities are available and which you have to notify of your arrival 2 hours before ETA by email or fax. In the UK for outward flights to EU countries there is no obligation to advice customs of your departure. May I understand this as I can depart from EGML to LFAT with just sending the flight plan and informing LFAT customs of my arrival and that's it?
I have also signed up with NATS so I will be able to send a flight plan when returning back to the mainland and found these numbers to check whether the flight plan is accepted: 0845 6010483 or 01489 612792.
Also paid attention to the reference guide to UK phraseologie as it seems that this subject also differs a little from what I'm used to. By the way, really a very good reference to read.
It's for me probably even excited as it is for UK guys who also want to cross the channel in opposite direction for the first time so you will certainly understand I would like to be somewhat prepared so I can enjoy the trip.
So in case I have made a mistake somewhere or there is still something important missing, please let me know. Your help would be highly appreciated.
Last edited by torob; 19th May 2010 at 07:55.
All correct and well researched. However:
If you mean that you've signed up for the AFPEx online flightplanning service, be aware that the wait for an account is months. The numbers that you give are the (genuinely helpful) helpdesk for that service, and I think they'll only be able to help you if you filed through AFPEx. You can, however, without an account, submit a FPL by fax on 01489 612793, but you may need to address it, which you're probably not used to.
An easier way may be:
* to file all your plans via Belgocontrol (but I don't know if they'll allow you to file EGML to LFAT)
or
* to sign up for Olivia and use the French service to file that leg.
I feel like I need to apologise on behalf of the UK aviation community for the chaotic state of flightplanning in the UK.
I have also signed up with NATS so I will be able to send a flight plan when returning back to the mainland and found these numbers to check whether the flight plan is accepted: 0845 6010483 or 01489 612792.
An easier way may be:
* to file all your plans via Belgocontrol (but I don't know if they'll allow you to file EGML to LFAT)
or
* to sign up for Olivia and use the French service to file that leg.
I feel like I need to apologise on behalf of the UK aviation community for the chaotic state of flightplanning in the UK.
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Bookworm,
Thank you very much for your anwser.
You really don't have to apologise for something we haven't created. Unfortunately each country will have its own aviation weakness .....
You're right, I signed up for the AFPEx online flightplanning service yesterday but because I want to execute the flight in July or August I will have to look for another solution.
I was told that Belgocontrol only accept flight plans of flights departing or arriving in the Belgium airspace but I still have to check this.
Going to look for Olivia so I'm sure I can file a flight plan in case I haven't received an account.
Again thanks for the tip
Thank you very much for your anwser.
You really don't have to apologise for something we haven't created. Unfortunately each country will have its own aviation weakness .....
You're right, I signed up for the AFPEx online flightplanning service yesterday but because I want to execute the flight in July or August I will have to look for another solution.
I was told that Belgocontrol only accept flight plans of flights departing or arriving in the Belgium airspace but I still have to check this.
Going to look for Olivia so I'm sure I can file a flight plan in case I haven't received an account.
Again thanks for the tip
Last edited by torob; 19th May 2010 at 11:01.
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Homebriefing is a very good flight plan filing service, which you can sign up to immediately. They charge about 40 euros per year and that gives you 10 flight plans, except flights which start or end in Austria or Switzerland in which case you can file as many of those as you like.
Many European pilots have been using HB for years.
For IFR flights there is EuroFPL which is currently free.
I believe that AFPEx is available only to pilots who can provide a UK address.
Many European pilots have been using HB for years.
For IFR flights there is EuroFPL which is currently free.
I believe that AFPEx is available only to pilots who can provide a UK address.
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I was told that Belgocontrol only accept flight plans of flights departing or arriving in the Belgium airspace but I still have to check this.
After all, it would be very cumbersome if you do a grand tour of Europe to sign up with all the local ATC providers and their tools just so that they can do the flightplan for you.
The other alternative is of course to use the old-fashioned paper form and have the local tower/info/radio fax it. They'll know where it needs to go for it to be accepted.
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Indeed but it is a helluva lot easier to file the flight plan from one's hotel room the night before; no hanging around at the airport then 
This business of using national websites for out-of-country filing (e.g. using Olivia for a flight wholly outside of France) seems to vary. I have heard it works, and I have also heard that the flight plans just vanish. This is obviously no good because one isn't going to discover it has vanished until one starts up. Whereas Homebriefing.com officially works worldwide.
This business of using national websites for out-of-country filing (e.g. using Olivia for a flight wholly outside of France) seems to vary. I have heard it works, and I have also heard that the flight plans just vanish. This is obviously no good because one isn't going to discover it has vanished until one starts up. Whereas Homebriefing.com officially works worldwide.
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Could this be something that EASA/Eurocontrol could actually improve by providing an harmonised multipoint access flightplanning system?
If SES is to create functional airspace blocks (FABS) that cross national borders, then it follows that one should be able to insert an FPL into the system from anywhere within Europe?
Or there again, no.
Sir George Cayley
If SES is to create functional airspace blocks (FABS) that cross national borders, then it follows that one should be able to insert an FPL into the system from anywhere within Europe?
Or there again, no.
Sir George Cayley
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You can insert an FPL into the "system" (the AFTN) from anywhere in the world.
If somebody with an AFTN connection in Mongolia decides to set up a flight plan filing website, 2 euros a time...
They need to provide a desk though, 24/7, capable of supplying the flight details should the aircraft disappear, etc.
If somebody with an AFTN connection in Mongolia decides to set up a flight plan filing website, 2 euros a time...
They need to provide a desk though, 24/7, capable of supplying the flight details should the aircraft disappear, etc.
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With reference to AFPEX, as previously mentioned you need a UK address but also require a UK CAA license number to verify the details for setting up the account. The reason being that the DFT in the UK put up the money for NATS to provide the service as a replacement for the Heathrow unit that was closed down, as such the DFT/NATS are loathe to allow non-UK users without some sort of payment forthcoming to cover the staffing costs. Certainly users from the Channel Islands have only been accepted after payment was made to NATS by the local governments.
As for Olivia, i'm pretty sure one of the airfields in the flightplan has to be French or it either won't be accepted or will disappear into the great unknown.
As for Olivia, i'm pretty sure one of the airfields in the flightplan has to be French or it either won't be accepted or will disappear into the great unknown.
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Thanks a lot for all the tips
First of all it seems that the e-mail address of the NCU which I mentioned in my first post seems to be incorrect. It should be [email protected] , apparently it changed from 'hmce' to 'hmrc' a few years ago. Also the phone number is n/a as they do no advise of receipt of forms.
I know it is possible to file your flight plan at the airfield with fax but as IO540 already mentioned it is much easier to prepare the day before and call them a few hours before you leave to check the flight plan is accepted. Determine that your flight plan has vanished once you are airborne so you have to file it in flight while trying to navigate in unfamiliar airspace is something I try to avoid.
Anyway, as some of you already noticed, it was not worth the effort to sign up for the AFPEX. I reviewed the application form and there seems to be no field to add the country you're living in, only the address. It didn't attract my attention yesterday because I was able to select that I was a holder of a non CAA licence and had to send in addition with the form a scanned copy of my licence. So probably no AFPEX for me, not because I have no CAA licence but because I'm not an UK citizen.
I have sent the question to Belgocontrol whether they accept flight plans for flights between 2 countries other than Belgium but still waiting for an answer. In case they don't, I will consider to purchase Homebriefing as it seems to be quite reliable.
First of all it seems that the e-mail address of the NCU which I mentioned in my first post seems to be incorrect. It should be [email protected] , apparently it changed from 'hmce' to 'hmrc' a few years ago. Also the phone number is n/a as they do no advise of receipt of forms.
I know it is possible to file your flight plan at the airfield with fax but as IO540 already mentioned it is much easier to prepare the day before and call them a few hours before you leave to check the flight plan is accepted. Determine that your flight plan has vanished once you are airborne so you have to file it in flight while trying to navigate in unfamiliar airspace is something I try to avoid.
Anyway, as some of you already noticed, it was not worth the effort to sign up for the AFPEX. I reviewed the application form and there seems to be no field to add the country you're living in, only the address. It didn't attract my attention yesterday because I was able to select that I was a holder of a non CAA licence and had to send in addition with the form a scanned copy of my licence. So probably no AFPEX for me, not because I have no CAA licence but because I'm not an UK citizen.
I have sent the question to Belgocontrol whether they accept flight plans for flights between 2 countries other than Belgium but still waiting for an answer. In case they don't, I will consider to purchase Homebriefing as it seems to be quite reliable.
Last edited by torob; 19th May 2010 at 22:16.
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With reference to AFPEX, as previously mentioned you need a UK address but also require a UK CAA license number to verify the details for setting up the account.
Olivia works differently, I believe, to AFPEx. The former has some kind of human element, though perhaps less than most people think. The latter is a straight AFTN terminal; you can send free text AFTN messages to your mate working at some airport in Mongolia
With Olivia, they can do "stuff" to drop flight plans they don't like. AFPEx has no obvious means of doing that; the FP you transmit is going to go where it is addressed...I really like AFPEx. It is 99% very good. The other 1% is stuff like copying one's inbox to email, which would be brill for slot notifications etc etc and would cost NATS nothing to operate .... once they paid the vendor £1,000,000 to implement the extra software
I am not aware of any "GA" flight plan filing facility which is officially not geographically limited, other than AFPEx, EuroFPL, and Homebriefing.
Of course there are other, upmarket, services which do various level of preflight stuff. One German firm starts at 35 euros per flight leg, for which you get the Eurocontrol route developed and I think some kind of weather pack. The you get Jeppesen et al who tend to work around the 3-figure / month area.
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Just been at Duxford/Fowlmere from Denmark via Texel.
Be aware of the "pass your message" fraseologi.
Also you will need to know about "basic service" and "traffic service". When asked what service you require you can ask for either. I asked for traffic service and if that was not available I got the basic service.
The Lars units was very helpfull and not very busy. All of them gave us Traffic service. I had some problems finding them on the map though. The London Info was not of much use.
When returning was asked for the ETA and height of the FIR crossing. We had an intersection on the route on the FIR border. This makes it very easy to reply - just read of the GPS.
You need to know the difference on MATZ and ATZ and the height of both. We are using the semicirular rule but in UK it is quadrantal rule.
Just a few notes on what I found different and noteworthy.
Be aware of the "pass your message" fraseologi.
Also you will need to know about "basic service" and "traffic service". When asked what service you require you can ask for either. I asked for traffic service and if that was not available I got the basic service.
The Lars units was very helpfull and not very busy. All of them gave us Traffic service. I had some problems finding them on the map though. The London Info was not of much use.
When returning was asked for the ETA and height of the FIR crossing. We had an intersection on the route on the FIR border. This makes it very easy to reply - just read of the GPS.
You need to know the difference on MATZ and ATZ and the height of both. We are using the semicirular rule but in UK it is quadrantal rule.
Just a few notes on what I found different and noteworthy.
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As for Damyns Hall
You will probably get no response from ATC.
Never manned these days.
You may get a reply from another aircraft in the circuit.
If not keep and eye on the wind sock and make blind calls when landing.
As for flight planning to LTQ.
Theres a guy at Damyns called Deepak who will help.
On departure you will need to call an ATC unit to open your flight plan.
probably via london information.
The other thing in the UK VRP,s are called Visual reference point. Ie you don,t have to be directly overhead them just be visual.
trevor
You will probably get no response from ATC.
Never manned these days.
You may get a reply from another aircraft in the circuit.
If not keep and eye on the wind sock and make blind calls when landing.
As for flight planning to LTQ.
Theres a guy at Damyns called Deepak who will help.
On departure you will need to call an ATC unit to open your flight plan.
probably via london information.
The other thing in the UK VRP,s are called Visual reference point. Ie you don,t have to be directly overhead them just be visual.
trevor
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pmh1234 and trevs99uk,
Very usable information. Thanks a lot
I have read the "Guide to visual flight rules in the UK" which covers the UK airspace, ATZ, MATZ, standard overhead join, LARS, etc just as the "reference guide to uk phraseology" which contains the service terminology. In this way I hope I'm somewhat prepared.
pmh1234, I have found this chart which shows the LARS units with their appropriate frequenties. http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...6_1_6_3_en.pdf
Regarding the VRP's, I was not aware of the fact you don't actually have to fly overhead those 'reference points' but I have just read the AIC 98/2005 concerning VRP. In my opinion this manner is much safer than the visual reporting points we use and have actually to be overflown.
The name Deepak is already added to my 'useful phone numbers, address and persons book' so I hope the problem with the flight plan is over and done with.
Today I received an answer from AFPEX as well as from Belgocontrol.
As expected AFPEX told me they can't give me acces because I'm not resident within the UK.
"AFPEx is supplied, for UK based pilots flying to and from the UK FIR's, by Nats on behalf of the UK CAA and as such is not available for pilots outside the United Kingdom."
Belgocntrol answered me that at this moment it's not possible to submit a flightplan when the Belgium FIR isn't involved with the flight.
Very usable information. Thanks a lot
I have read the "Guide to visual flight rules in the UK" which covers the UK airspace, ATZ, MATZ, standard overhead join, LARS, etc just as the "reference guide to uk phraseology" which contains the service terminology. In this way I hope I'm somewhat prepared.
pmh1234, I have found this chart which shows the LARS units with their appropriate frequenties. http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...6_1_6_3_en.pdf
Regarding the VRP's, I was not aware of the fact you don't actually have to fly overhead those 'reference points' but I have just read the AIC 98/2005 concerning VRP. In my opinion this manner is much safer than the visual reporting points we use and have actually to be overflown.
The name Deepak is already added to my 'useful phone numbers, address and persons book'
so I hope the problem with the flight plan is over and done with.Today I received an answer from AFPEX as well as from Belgocontrol.
As expected AFPEX told me they can't give me acces because I'm not resident within the UK.
"AFPEx is supplied, for UK based pilots flying to and from the UK FIR's, by Nats on behalf of the UK CAA and as such is not available for pilots outside the United Kingdom."
Belgocntrol answered me that at this moment it's not possible to submit a flightplan when the Belgium FIR isn't involved with the flight.
