Nav Progress Check
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: Chesham, EGTB Booker
Nav Progress Check
Hi
i am still doing my PPL and more or less catching up the outstandings exams. I booked myself in for a few more lessons and was told I need to do my Nav Progress Check as I already completed my Dual XC earlier on.
How can I understand the nav progress check?How long does this normally take and what do I have to watch out for by the instructor?
i am still doing my PPL and more or less catching up the outstandings exams. I booked myself in for a few more lessons and was told I need to do my Nav Progress Check as I already completed my Dual XC earlier on.
How can I understand the nav progress check?How long does this normally take and what do I have to watch out for by the instructor?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
Never heard of a Navigation Progress Check in the twelve years that I have been flying.
As it isn't a requirement in the actual syllabus, it might be a school specific check where they have you fly with another instructor or maybe the chief flying instructor to assess your progress on the course, this being a navigation progress check.
These are to ensure you are progressing well and are on-track to skills test standards.
These type of in-house checks are quite common in the USA when on Part 141 courses, for example the FAA IR Part 141 when using the Jepessen Syllabus requires three stage checks to check individual progress throughout the course.
This also ensures all instructors within a school are teaching their students standardised practices for that school.
I wouldn't worry about the check, sounds as though it is an in-house flight check. The instructor that you fly with may carry out a dummy navigation portion of the skills test, i.e. you plan to fly a route. Once you identify your first waypoint they will get you to divert to a specific place, so in flight re-planning is required. Thereafter they may get you lost and you have to find your whereabouts on a chart. Be warned with this bit... they may spin the Direction Indicator on you... always check the DI against the compass!!!
Anyway all the best but I really wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy it and treat it as another instructional flight...
As it isn't a requirement in the actual syllabus, it might be a school specific check where they have you fly with another instructor or maybe the chief flying instructor to assess your progress on the course, this being a navigation progress check.
These are to ensure you are progressing well and are on-track to skills test standards.
These type of in-house checks are quite common in the USA when on Part 141 courses, for example the FAA IR Part 141 when using the Jepessen Syllabus requires three stage checks to check individual progress throughout the course.
This also ensures all instructors within a school are teaching their students standardised practices for that school.
I wouldn't worry about the check, sounds as though it is an in-house flight check. The instructor that you fly with may carry out a dummy navigation portion of the skills test, i.e. you plan to fly a route. Once you identify your first waypoint they will get you to divert to a specific place, so in flight re-planning is required. Thereafter they may get you lost and you have to find your whereabouts on a chart. Be warned with this bit... they may spin the Direction Indicator on you... always check the DI against the compass!!!
Anyway all the best but I really wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy it and treat it as another instructional flight...
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 12
From: UK
Some schools have a Nav progress check to see if its appropriate to send you on your qualifying cross country. It may be a simple transit to another airfield which is what you will be doing on the QXC. If its a school requirement it should be be written into their Order Book or Training Manual if whatever documentation they have.
From what you say it appears that you may have completed your QXC in which case its a bit late for a progress check!
From what you say it appears that you may have completed your QXC in which case its a bit late for a progress check!
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
Why do I suspect that this "check" has little to do with checking a students progress and more to do with making money.
The student trainning record should show the progress (or lack of) that a student is making.
Would this be with a company that has a number of bases around London?
The student trainning record should show the progress (or lack of) that a student is making.
Would this be with a company that has a number of bases around London?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: Chesham, EGTB Booker
hi no this is just with one flying school..which is part of cabair. I have not done my solo cross country yet only dual so far. They told me i need to do before they let me fly the QXC.
Maybe it is really just to make sure I am alright to go out and do the XC on my own. This is also with an examiner instead of my regular instructor. The QXC is then hopefully one day later on Sunday.
Maybe it is really just to make sure I am alright to go out and do the XC on my own. This is also with an examiner instead of my regular instructor. The QXC is then hopefully one day later on Sunday.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
Money making
This seems to have little to do with Quality control and lots to do with making money.
Who knows your progress better than your instructor? so he is in the best place to know if you are fit to be sent solo X-C.
I would guess that your trainning is punctuated with all sorts of "club rules" that delay your trainning and are not required by CAA regulation resulting in extra hours flown.
You are at the X-C stage in your trainning it is probably too late to change training providors but as soon as you have your PPL go take a look at other flying clubs............... a lot of them in your area offer very good value for money.
Who knows your progress better than your instructor? so he is in the best place to know if you are fit to be sent solo X-C.
I would guess that your trainning is punctuated with all sorts of "club rules" that delay your trainning and are not required by CAA regulation resulting in extra hours flown.
You are at the X-C stage in your trainning it is probably too late to change training providors but as soon as you have your PPL go take a look at other flying clubs............... a lot of them in your area offer very good value for money.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen, UK
This is also with an examiner instead of my regular instructor.
And if they do that for everyone, then either they have no confidence in their entire instructing staff, or they're out to make a few more quid from a student who doesn't know any better.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: UK, mainly
Just confirm you're doing a JAR-PPL(A) rather than a NPPL(A)? This would be normal with a NPPL, a little over the top for a PPL though - more the sort of thing you'd meet on a structured military or integrated course.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Typically suspicious people thinking that the PPL school is out to sting them...
What is it with some people?
I used to include 2 'progress checks' in our club's PPL course, but the hours total was still the same. One (PC1) was flown just after circuit consolidation to make sure that a more senior FI had independently checked the student's progress and that no bad habits/person foibles had been picked up from the FI.
The other (PC2) was flown during the Nav phase immediately before the students first 'unseen' solo cross-country. Again with a senior FI and for the same reasons as PC1.
Neither PC1 nor PC2 contained any extra instruction, they were the 'student sampling' and 'progress checks' the CAA used to recommened. Perhaps they still do? Because they were termed 'progress checks', if flown with an FE than that didn't then disbar the same FE from flying the PPL Skill Test with the same student - although that sensible rule has now been changed.
No-one is trying to rob you, these are just sensible practices to ensure that progress is independently reviewed.
So I suggest you straighten up and fly right!
What is it with some people?I used to include 2 'progress checks' in our club's PPL course, but the hours total was still the same. One (PC1) was flown just after circuit consolidation to make sure that a more senior FI had independently checked the student's progress and that no bad habits/person foibles had been picked up from the FI.
The other (PC2) was flown during the Nav phase immediately before the students first 'unseen' solo cross-country. Again with a senior FI and for the same reasons as PC1.
Neither PC1 nor PC2 contained any extra instruction, they were the 'student sampling' and 'progress checks' the CAA used to recommened. Perhaps they still do? Because they were termed 'progress checks', if flown with an FE than that didn't then disbar the same FE from flying the PPL Skill Test with the same student - although that sensible rule has now been changed.
No-one is trying to rob you, these are just sensible practices to ensure that progress is independently reviewed.
So I suggest you straighten up and fly right!
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
BEagle
You are talking from the point of view of a properly run RAF flying club who have no directive apart from to cover your costs. As such you did this progress check within the normal course time.
I can assure you that the objective of this check is only to make more money by increasing the flying time of the student.
I can assure you that the objective of this check is only to make more money by increasing the flying time of the student.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 12
From: UK
All such checks can of course be fitted into the minimum hours for licence issue, you only need 25 hours dual and 10 solo to take the JAA Skill Test so there are 10 hours spare or 7.5 allowing for 2.5 for the Skill Test. You do not need 45 hours before you take the Skill Test as many will try and tell you!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
I would imagine that a progress check or whatever it's called, would be counted towards the "dual" hours and as such not eat into the "reserve" hours.
As a student, I would only be annoyed if these repeated progress checks would cause me to significantly overrun the 45 hours total. But as long as they're flown within the 45 hours, who cares what they're called?
As a student, I would only be annoyed if these repeated progress checks would cause me to significantly overrun the 45 hours total. But as long as they're flown within the 45 hours, who cares what they're called?
