IMC
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
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From: UK
I was just wondering how you put a full flight plan into these old flight managment systems, how you specified an IFR weighpoint and how the system derived that weighpoint from the avionics? I cant imagine Dornier using multiples DMEs or having some sort of database to which these were cross referred.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
The FMS has a database that is updated using a Data card. The position is updated using a variety of methods, including DME fixes, GPS etc. Fairly old kit by modern standards but serviceable largely! Gx30 replacements going in along with Mode S is much easier to use and far more capable.
496 is much easier to use!!
496 is much easier to use!!
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 1
From: Cambridge, England, EU
So my FTO is paying a fortune for instructor liability insurance for......??
I pay a fortune for professional indemnity insurance because my client insists that I do so, but so far as I can tell no claim has ever been paid on such a policy.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
Flying is not a cheap hobby 
But for VFR you don't need to update every month. Once a year is OK - same as the VFR charts are updated anyway.
One cannot compare aviation GPS with tomtom etc road nav. I have been driving with TT for years and while it is OK 95% of the time, the rest of the time it can be utter crap. TT buy in old road databases because they are a lot cheaper - about 3 years old. On the road, one gets away with it; it is just a nuisance when one enters a postcode for the University of Reading and it cannot find it
But for VFR you don't need to update every month. Once a year is OK - same as the VFR charts are updated anyway.
One cannot compare aviation GPS with tomtom etc road nav. I have been driving with TT for years and while it is OK 95% of the time, the rest of the time it can be utter crap. TT buy in old road databases because they are a lot cheaper - about 3 years old. On the road, one gets away with it; it is just a nuisance when one enters a postcode for the University of Reading and it cannot find it
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
Chris, you're not paying as much for the hardware, but rather for the Jepp database.
Without the Jepp database, or without a road database for that matter, GPSs can be had for, oh, 50 pounds or so these days.
Personally I own a 99-euro Garmin eTrex Euro (although it was a bit more expensive when I bought it) interfaced to my laptop on which I'm running OziExplorer. In OziExplorer I use self-scanned aviation maps, or whatever map I come across and then cross-reference with an aviation map, click the route together, load it into the eTrex and off I go. I owned all this stuff well before I got into aviation, so the additional investment was time only.
Without the Jepp database, or without a road database for that matter, GPSs can be had for, oh, 50 pounds or so these days.
Personally I own a 99-euro Garmin eTrex Euro (although it was a bit more expensive when I bought it) interfaced to my laptop on which I'm running OziExplorer. In OziExplorer I use self-scanned aviation maps, or whatever map I come across and then cross-reference with an aviation map, click the route together, load it into the eTrex and off I go. I owned all this stuff well before I got into aviation, so the additional investment was time only.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
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From: UK
Gps is so expensive,
Is there not software out their that updates a 'road' tomtom' etc into
aviation gps?
Is there not software out their that updates a 'road' tomtom' etc into
aviation gps?
Unfortunately it does not run on TomTom GPSs but it does run on most other makes of car GPS. TomTom use a somewhat "strange" platform.
Have a look at PocketFms.
I reckon PocketFms should be more widely recognised. While I dont use it in the aircraft (although I did for many years) it is also excellent to run on your PC for planning and well worth the annual subscription.
(I have no commercial or other interest in PocketFms).
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,218
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From: Surrey
It is worth remembering most of the GPS advocates posting here (of which I am one) are flying behind a panel mounted RNAV approved (and in many cases approach approved) moving map GPS, or are using a quite slick aviation GPS. Additionally, of the ones I know personally, I believe all of them have subscriptions for updated data on every ARINC cycle.
From this perspective it is almost inconceivable that you would want to use something else as your primary method of navigating under IFR (unless you have a DME/DME FMS as well
).
I have never found the DIY solutions sufficiently robust to be comfortable using them for anything more than additional data. Yes I do have a bluetooth GPS I can chuck on the dash and feed data to my tablet running other mapping products. Would I choose to use this as my primary nav system? No.
From this perspective it is almost inconceivable that you would want to use something else as your primary method of navigating under IFR (unless you have a DME/DME FMS as well
).I have never found the DIY solutions sufficiently robust to be comfortable using them for anything more than additional data. Yes I do have a bluetooth GPS I can chuck on the dash and feed data to my tablet running other mapping products. Would I choose to use this as my primary nav system? No.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Yes I do have a bluetooth GPS I can chuck on the dash and feed data to my tablet running other mapping products. Would I choose to use this as my primary nav system? No.
It's miles less error prone and more accurate than map reading.
The only other option is pure VOR tracking but that often results in a somewhat cramped routing style
And not a lot of accuracy, once close to the VOR or too far away to pick it up (which at GA levels, say 2400ft, is not all that far at all).
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,218
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From: Surrey
Because I have had occassional issues with loosing the signal or the bluetooth stack acting up, sometimes strugle to read the screen in the wrong light, find it difficult to amend the flightplan on the fly or lookup a new waypoint sequence it into my flight plan and plot a direct from my current location (which may just be the software I have).
But most importantly, because I fly F100+ and have an approach approved GNS530 coupled to the autopilot - so that is my primary nav already!
I would be happy using a 396/496 with current data and a proper antena as the primary enroute nav system below FL095.
But most importantly, because I fly F100+ and have an approach approved GNS530 coupled to the autopilot - so that is my primary nav already!
I would be happy using a 396/496 with current data and a proper antena as the primary enroute nav system below FL095.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
I agree; I fly with decent panel kit also.
I was asking the Q from the POV of a pilot who has nothing at all. IMHO, a bluetooth GPS receiver stuck somewhere high with a good sky view, and some kind of computer running a decent big VFR chart, is a whole lot better than map reading, or radio nav with the typical dodgy rental spamcan nav gear.
Bluetooth is indeed "a technology with a great future" but if one sets it up and never messes with it (at either end) it should keep working (under windoze, pocket/pc is something else......). And if the connection fails, it is generally obvious on the display device.
I've been flying around with a BT GPS and a tablet computer for about 6 years, and I would happily use it as my only nav method, VFR UK and Europe. I went all the way to Crete with that kit, and sure as hell I was not doing any map reading, especially when VMC on top
I was asking the Q from the POV of a pilot who has nothing at all. IMHO, a bluetooth GPS receiver stuck somewhere high with a good sky view, and some kind of computer running a decent big VFR chart, is a whole lot better than map reading, or radio nav with the typical dodgy rental spamcan nav gear.
Bluetooth is indeed "a technology with a great future"
but if one sets it up and never messes with it (at either end) it should keep working (under windoze, pocket/pc is something else......). And if the connection fails, it is generally obvious on the display device.I've been flying around with a BT GPS and a tablet computer for about 6 years, and I would happily use it as my only nav method, VFR UK and Europe. I went all the way to Crete with that kit, and sure as hell I was not doing any map reading, especially when VMC on top
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 230
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From: NE England
I would be happy using a 396/496 with current data and a proper antena as the primary enroute nav system below FL095.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 0
From: Surrey
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: uk
Just been looking at the gps systems on Flightstore.com and its
difficult to choose between them.
Any sugestions on what is best for around 600 quid?
The thing id want is full VFR charts with a moving map, And alerts for
terrain, airspace etc
This may be a silly request as maybe they all have these features but the website doesnt compare to real people experiances
difficult to choose between them.
Any sugestions on what is best for around 600 quid?
The thing id want is full VFR charts with a moving map, And alerts for
terrain, airspace etc
This may be a silly request as maybe they all have these features but the website doesnt compare to real people experiances
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
From: UK
I would take a look at PocketFms - at least you can add charts as you need them, keep it up to date and for all intensive purposes the various platforms available are nearly as good as the dedicated Garmins style GPS units.
The fact that you also get weather and can add traffic are worth while.
The fact that you also get weather and can add traffic are worth while.