Logbook entry

[channel4]

Hi Guys,

A friend of mine has asked me to fly with him next week in his PA34 Seneca. Apart from taking advantage of the scenery of the South West of UK with the digital camera it is an opportunity to add some hours to my logbook. The question I want to ask people is should this be a problem if my MEP/IR has expired. (two weeks ago).

Correct me if I am wrong, but if I wanted to hire a Seneca out and fly it on my own and log hours as PIC, this would be a problem as I would then require a valid MEP/IR (plus medical).

But if not flying as PIC, can I still log the hours even if my MEP/IR has expired as long as my friend is PIC (and has his MEP/IR and medical all valid).

renewing/revalidating licenses (MEP/SEP) are necessary for acting as PIC of an aircraft only? Otherwise we couldnt log any of our hours training before we obtain our ratings right?

Appreciate your input here folks

Dave

[mad_jock]

Unless your friend is a CRE you cannot log anything towards your total hours.

[channel4]

Really? Because i know people who have let their ratings expire in the past, and then before renewing them they have to fly a couple hours with an instructor to practise before flying with the examiner. And they log both the hours with the instructor and the examiner. Isn't this normally the case?

Dave

[S-Works]

That is because they are logging the time as PUt with an Instructor.

If you friend is an Instructor with a valid ME Instructor rating and you are flying with him under instruction then you can log as PUT. If not then you log nothing.

[madlandrover]

Yes, of course you can log P/UT hours when receiving instruction. However, you don't mention if your friend is a qualified multi-engine instructor? If not, then you can only legally be a passenger rather than a trainee.

[channel4]

ok guys now you made it clearer for me. Thanks for the input!

Dave

[channel4]

no he is not an instructor, therefore it looks like i'm the photographer for the day!

[mad_jock]

You can still have a pole on the controls at an approprate moment.

But.....

Your friend would be very silly if he let you handle the aircraft for either departure or arrival.

If anything went wrong he would be hung out to dry.

Unfortunately there seems to be a dumbing down of pretty basic airlaw across the industry in the UK. To be honest the level of knowledge of your average instructor is getting that poor or they have so much word of mouth bollocks which is wrong I am not suprised a normal license holder hasn't got a clue whats going on.

At least you got some intellegent answers if a bit one liners before some fud came in and said you could log it as PICUS or co-pilot or some other such bollocks

[Nashers]

Another point you have to be aware of is a PA34 is a single pilot aircraft therefore even if you did have a valid ME, you still could not log hours unless you were PIC or taking instruction for an ME instructor.

[The Heff]

Supernumary?

Could it not be logged as "Supernumary" or SNY, with the time at the controls listed in the "Any Other Flying" column? Just a thought.

[S-Works]

Does not achieve anything. The original post was to add some hours to his logbook. SNY counts for nothing other than as a reminder of the trip. Just wastes space in a log book IMHO.

[The Heff]

Originally Posted by bose-x

SNY counts for nothing other than as a reminder of the trip. Just wastes space in a log book IMHO.

Well, isn't that what a logbook is for?

SNY shouldn't be considered sufficient evidence to show proof of experience for the purpose of re-validating/renewing or obtaining a licence/rating, of course; but to say that it "just wastes space in a log book" is harsh. Maybe the entry wouldn't be appropriate in a professional pilot's logbook, but isn't General Aviation all about flying for fun? Even if the end goal of the original poster is for professional aims, its still a nice-to-have entry, just to record one's flying.

[S-Works]

Depends on your opinion Heff. I think it is a waste of space personally hence the adding of IMHO - "In my humble opinion'.

it is an opportunity to add some hours to my logbook

The OP saw it as an opportunity to add hours. Recording as SNY would not be adding hours, just filling space. If that floats your boat then so be it. No need to get into a discussion about it.

[hatzflyer]

Mind you Bose, many a tale comes out of the brief comments...."3rd Sept 1943....credited one third me109 seen to go down in flames "

[S-Works]

Good points Hatz.

I shall imediatly add "fired a few rounds at a passing RV4 but the blighter was to damn quick for me,hopefully chalky will have finished the job" to my last Auster flight...

[hatzflyer]

I think I got one round through your mag though

[S-Works]

Ha! Thats what happened. They will award you the iron cross for that!!!

[Pull what]

Actually your type of question comes up regularly

You can write or log what you like in your own log book. Its what you are counting for the grant/renewal of a licence or rating that is important.

Only one pilot can be PIC, unless the PIC becomes incapacitated in flight.

Ensure you agree in writing (Technical Log/ Authorisation sheet) before flight who is PIC, lack of clarity can come back to haunt you if there is an incident.

[englishal]

Only one pilot can be PIC, unless the PIC becomes incapacitated in flight.

Or (s)he says..."here you fly for a bit, I'm going to have a snooze"...then the sole manipulator of the controls can log PIC (as long as they are rated and current).

[Whopity]

this would be a problem as I would then require a valid MEP/IR (plus medical).

Here is another example of a licensed pilot, albeit expired, who does not know the basic rules and privileges of his licence. Why would an IR be required for what appears to be a VFR trip? No mention of a MEP Class Rating! Is it really so complicated now that nobody understands it?