Currency and passengers
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Currency and passengers
The 90 day rule of minimum 3 take off and landings in that time to carry passengers.
Does that still apply if the passenger is also a qualified pilot?
I've searched but cannot find an answer.
Lister
Does that still apply if the passenger is also a qualified pilot?
I've searched but cannot find an answer.
Lister
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In my understanding YES, as in an a/c requiring only one pilot, anyone else is a passenger - no matter the qualifications. And if the other pilot flies, then you are the pax....
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I'd agree.. unless they're an instructor and PIC from the right seat..
Mind you, there might (note: might) be limitations in the POH that if an aircraft is flown solo, it has to be from a certain seat due to W&B considerations (mostly applicable to tandem seating and light helicopters).
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Originally Posted by Lister Noble
The 90 day rule of minimum 3 take off and landings in that time to carry passengers.
Does that still apply if the passenger is also a qualified pilot?
Does that still apply if the passenger is also a qualified pilot?
the 90 day rule of minimum 3 take off and landings in that time
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AFAIK there is no legal requirement whatsoever that the PIC sits in the left or right seat. Nor, if somebody is under instruction, to sit left or right.
Mind you, there might (note: might) be limitations in the POH that if an aircraft is flown solo, it has to be from a certain seat due to W&B considerations (mostly applicable to tandem seating and light helicopters).
Mind you, there might (note: might) be limitations in the POH that if an aircraft is flown solo, it has to be from a certain seat due to W&B considerations (mostly applicable to tandem seating and light helicopters).
I couldn't fly a PA 28 solo from the right hand seat as the fuel cock would be out of my reach.
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In some handbooks there is a requirement that is should be flown from the left seat
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I couldn't fly a PA 28 solo from the right hand seat as the fuel cock would be out of my reach.
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My original post originated from trying to fly with a friend this morning.
We both have full licences, but he has not flown for over 3 months.
He was going to do 3 circuits then we were going to go off for the day.
In the event,the engine would not start due to some battery problem,I tried to hand start,I'm used to that with the L4 Cub.
Anyway it would not start,even with jump leads,so it was a more major problem than we reckoned,stuck solenoid,knackered starter,who knows?
I thought if we get it going I might as well jump in,BUT if we had an incident, then would we be legal.?
Having read replies ,I think probably not.
It's a group aircraft and in the past we have turned up and found switches left on,and other unreported faults.
I suppose it goes to prove if you have a group aircraft then it has to be run spot on.
Never have this sort of problem with our Cub.
Lister
We both have full licences, but he has not flown for over 3 months.
He was going to do 3 circuits then we were going to go off for the day.
In the event,the engine would not start due to some battery problem,I tried to hand start,I'm used to that with the L4 Cub.
Anyway it would not start,even with jump leads,so it was a more major problem than we reckoned,stuck solenoid,knackered starter,who knows?
I thought if we get it going I might as well jump in,BUT if we had an incident, then would we be legal.?
Having read replies ,I think probably not.
It's a group aircraft and in the past we have turned up and found switches left on,and other unreported faults.
I suppose it goes to prove if you have a group aircraft then it has to be run spot on.
Never have this sort of problem with our Cub.
Lister
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I thought if we get it going I might as well jump in,BUT if we had an incident, then would we be legal.?
(Apart from the metaphysical question of whether having an accident would be legal in its own right.)
But... There's something that's interesting here.
LASORS 2008, appendix F contains a bit of the ANO 2005 Schedule 8:
"The holder [of a Private Pilots License] shall not [...] fly as pilot in command of such an aeroplane carrying passengers unless within the preceding 90 days he has made three take-offs and three landings as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aeroplane of the same type or class"
The article doesn't, as far as I can tell, specify the capacity in which you have to do these three take-offs and landings. If you were acting as Pilot in Command, but you were letting your friend do the take-offs and landings "as sole manipulator of the controls", would that be legal, and would that count towards his 90-day currency?
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The article doesn't, as far as I can tell, specify the capacity in which you have to do these three take-offs and landings. If you were acting as Pilot in Command, but you were letting your friend do the take-offs and landings "as sole manipulator of the controls", would that be legal, and would that count towards his 90-day currency?
What you need to do is to let him prove to you he is ok then step out to let him do his 3 take-offs and landings.
In our group we have a 45 day rule, after which you fly with another current group member, but one prefers the comfort of flying with instructors who tnd to be less demanding than us.
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ok so you go up with your pilot buddy. You do your three no problemo, simple, log 'em and away you go. Or you fluff up and he fishes you out, then you settle in, get three good 'uns, again no problemo. But say there's a (minor but expensive) prang: you had a passenger, so you're goosed. Or he had the prang, so was he insured or not? You certainly weren't!
Safest advice go with an instructor. But then again the Wx was perfect on Saturday and I was feeling up to it even after 100 days layoff. Like riding a bike
.
Safest advice go with an instructor. But then again the Wx was perfect on Saturday and I was feeling up to it even after 100 days layoff. Like riding a bike
.
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In Canada it is five takeoffs/landings in the last six months and on top of that the same thing occurs for water landings.
I can not for the life of me remember what the circumstances are but I have this dim memory of the Canadian regs having an exception somewhere for qualified pilots as passengers , I just have no idea what it applied to.
I can not for the life of me remember what the circumstances are but I have this dim memory of the Canadian regs having an exception somewhere for qualified pilots as passengers , I just have no idea what it applied to.
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"Sole manipulator of the controls" seems to be the key here. They could have said "Pilot in Command" (as they do in SEP revalidation for example) but chose not to.
So I believe you can jump in with him, log three circuits as PIC, while your friend does the take-offs and landings, then you switch command and he logs the time from then on, having gained his experience.
Subject to Group/Insurance/POH restrictions as others have mentioned, but IMHO not LASORS.
So I believe you can jump in with him, log three circuits as PIC, while your friend does the take-offs and landings, then you switch command and he logs the time from then on, having gained his experience.
Subject to Group/Insurance/POH restrictions as others have mentioned, but IMHO not LASORS.
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... but why the fancy pants. Just do it properly 
I had a group member who was a danger to himself and this passengers (usually one of his children). He always managed to do his 90-days, just. But one year he miscalculated the dates and failed to do so.
He flew on the 91st day, swore blind that he did 3 take-offs and landings, then put his son in for the intended flight.
Unfortunately for him I was on the airfield and watched him flying straight off with his child as a passenger.
Fortunately he is no longer a member of the group, as he could not be trusted to be honest with us in that and in many other ways.
Flying is about being honest with yourself.
I had a group member who was a danger to himself and this passengers (usually one of his children). He always managed to do his 90-days, just. But one year he miscalculated the dates and failed to do so.
He flew on the 91st day, swore blind that he did 3 take-offs and landings, then put his son in for the intended flight.
Unfortunately for him I was on the airfield and watched him flying straight off with his child as a passenger.
Fortunately he is no longer a member of the group, as he could not be trusted to be honest with us in that and in many other ways.
Flying is about being honest with yourself.