Notam meaning

[Maoraigh1]

Q) EGPX/QWELW/IV/BO/W/000/180/5727N00333W014
B) FROM: 10/03/07 07:30C) TO: 10/03/11 16:00
E) CLOSE AIR SUPPORT EXER. FAST JET ACFT AND HEL WILL CONDUCT HIGHENERGY MANOEUVRES WI 13NM RADIUS OF AREA BOUNDED BY5725N 00358W-5730N 00310W-5714N 00334W-5725N 00358W (DAVA, MORAY).CTC 0167 745161. AUS 10-03-0017/AS3.LOWER: SFC
UPPER: 18000FT AMSL
SCHEDULE: 0730-1600

What shape is "13NM radius" from a triangle?

[gpn01]

It's a bigger triangle with blobby corners.

[Whopity]

Surely its triangular with the corners rounded off!

[gpn01]

Thinking about it a bit more, it's simply a bigger triangle with corners every bit as sharp as the inner one.

[Crash one]

Isn't it a circle 13nm radius centred on the geometric centre of the triangle

[Whopity]

You would think so, but

13NM RADIUS OF AREA...

really illustrates how we have lost the art of communicating effectively!
Filing a NOTAM is a tick in the box. There is no box for making sure it makes sense!

[IO540]

It's also irrelevant because you can come across planes doing "high energy maneuovers" anywhere

The only reason this stuff gets notamed is because the internet makes it easy to do so, and everybody in power has bought into the "duty of care" bollox.

Come to think of it, what would be a low energy manoeuver? I don't think a Cessna 150 doing 100kt is "low energy"; well not if if hits you. Why is every C150 flight not notamed?? A 1400kg TB20 at 150kt has enough energy to raise the temperature of 1kg of water by 147628 degrees C (long time since I did physics and could be out a bit somewhere... maybe it is 147.6?). Anyway that sounds quite high energy to me.

This kind of bollox (along with other earth shatteringly important preflight information like Squadron Commander Booton allocating unverified transponder codes) is what has thrown the notam system into disrepute and is one reason why many (possibly most) pilots don't bother to get notams before flying.

[DX Wombat]

one reason why many (possibly most) pilots don't bother to get notams before flying.

And, as at least one idiot learned last year, by not looking at the NOTAMs you can get into serious bother when you then fly through the BAeA competition which WAS notamed, not to mention the fact that it puts the lives of the aerobatics pilots in danger.

[24Carrot]

The aerobatics are usually in one place, so it isn't too hard to work out where to avoid.

I do think they could improve the way they report the Red Arrow routes though, you pretty much have to mark out each lat/lon and draw the lines on the chart. Presumably they have already done that on their chart, so why not put it online? I appreciate that the NOTAM's are very telex friendly in a way that charts are not, but many people have moved on from telexes these days.

IO540, I think it might be more like 1000 degrees Celsius, but I take your point.

[IO540]

In this day and age, there is absolutely zero excuse for any actually relevant (i.e. a TRA) notam to not come with a web URL on which the pilot can find a little map.

[DX Wombat]

The aerobatics are usually in one place, so it isn't too hard to work out where to avoid.

Exactly Carrot! Which is why it is so frustrating, not to say dangerous when someone does what was done at some of the competitions last year [and other years]. I think the worst one I saw last year was the idiot who did his own aerobatic display along the length of the runway at Elvington - not once, several times and without listening out on any frequency whatsoever. He got his comeuppance when Church Fenton radar, which just happened to be operating that Saturday tracked him back home and the airfield management and/or CFI was informed of his exploits. The outcome could have been so different as at least one of the competitors was forced to take avoiding action.

[24Carrot]

Even if he somehow missed the NOTAM, (low-level?) aerobatics over a runway at a busy-looking aerodrome without any contact or prior arrangement is just plain stupid. Illegal too, I expect.

I think we are all agreed there are NOTAMs worth looking at, but some are not, and the presentation is bad.

I have this annoying suspicion that they will never put marked-up charts online in case a few pilots print them off instead of buying the months-old paper ones. Bean-counting trumps safety every time.

[IO540]

It's not illegal if the runway is in Class G and there is no ATZ.

[24Carrot]

Granted, but

along the length of the runway

made me think he was under 500 feet agl at a busy aerodrome and not landing. Perhaps I read too much into that. Over 500 feet it could be legal.

[Jodelman]

In this day and age, there is absolutely zero excuse for any actually relevant (i.e. a TRA) notam to not come with a web URL on which the pilot can find a little map.

Can't be done. Notams are restricted to characters used by teleprinters (Baudot Code). No lower case letters and other essential characters used by web URL's.

[IO540]

URL (and email addresses) are not case sensitive.

All you need for a URL is WWW.DOMAIN.COM/1234 etc.

[englishal]

They are often doing high energy manoeuvres over Yeovilton and Boscombe (for example, cos I've seen them) well outside or above their MATZs. Are these Notamed (No)....Although they (whoever they are) constantly notam exercises going on in the Bristol channel which I have yet to come across...

[BackPacker]

Notams are restricted to characters used by teleprinters (Baudot Code). No lower case letters and other essential characters used by web URL's.

Lower case or upper case doesn't matter all that much for the web. The DNS portion (server name) of the URLs is case insensitive in any case, and the filename portion can be made case insensitive, depending on the server setting (for instance using Apaches mod_speling or mod_rewrite modules). And furthermore most URLs will just contain slashes, colons, dots and perhaps the occasional dash and question mark as special characters. All of which are available in the Baudot code.

I'm not saying any arbitrary URL can be expressed within the character set of the Baudot code, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to create a valid URL within the limits of the Baudot code.

In the Netherlands, there are several NOTAMs that actually refer to a web page which has more details and a map. The NOTAM about the SRZ Schiphol is one example. Unfortunately such NOTAMs are still the exception rather than the norm.

[fisbangwollop]

Sounds like a standard day outside controlled airspace over the majority of Scotland.....the Airforce's best play ground!!

[DX Wombat]

It's not illegal if the runway is in Class G and there is no ATZ.

Not only was Elvington operating, Air-Ground if I remember correctly, but Church Fenton was also active and Elvington lies directly under the stub, almost on the centreline for the Church Fenton MATZ. The fact remains that the competition was notamed and the box was just to one side of the runway itself. The pilot of the aircraft made absolutely NO attempt to contact Elvington - I know, I had the radio with the Elvington frequency on the table in front of me, it was switched on and working with an appropriate volume set. Elvington, on the other hand, made several attempts to contact him.