Why use a let down plate?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Calm down FOK 
You're not an ex RAF navigator by any chance??
Every real pilot I have ever met flies with printed data for the primary airports involved, enroute, etc.
One problem is that one cannot print a plate for every airport one might drop into when the sh*t hits the fan, hence the discussion of electronic means of displaying this stuff.
Another one is that the wonderful printed airways charts are barely usable in the cockpit, due to size and the difficulty of finding countries, never mind anything smaller...
You will also find that there are few if any laws dictating the carriage of stuff in printed format... it is merely prudent to backup stuff which is electronic.
You're not an ex RAF navigator by any chance??Every real pilot I have ever met flies with printed data for the primary airports involved, enroute, etc.
One problem is that one cannot print a plate for every airport one might drop into when the sh*t hits the fan, hence the discussion of electronic means of displaying this stuff.
Another one is that the wonderful printed airways charts are barely usable in the cockpit, due to size and the difficulty of finding countries, never mind anything smaller...
You will also find that there are few if any laws dictating the carriage of stuff in printed format... it is merely prudent to backup stuff which is electronic.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only to certain kinds of IR holders...
I have a CPL/IR and still think the IMCR was brilliant. In fact I learnt sod-all doing the IR. Hmmm, let me see, what exactly did I learn on the IR?
1) lost comms procedure
2) the separation between lateral and vertical clearances
Maybe there was something else but I can't remember it.
All the juicy relevant stuff one picks up from other pilots, and the internet.
I have a CPL/IR and still think the IMCR was brilliant. In fact I learnt sod-all doing the IR. Hmmm, let me see, what exactly did I learn on the IR?
1) lost comms procedure
2) the separation between lateral and vertical clearances
Maybe there was something else but I can't remember it.
All the juicy relevant stuff one picks up from other pilots, and the internet.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Almost no modern IFR pilot flies without a GPS moving map today.
And if you are licensed to fly in the moo, a few (or even many) vectors shouldn't cause you to lose SA. Because one of the jobs of the charts is to help you with SA and help you orientate yourself. After all, there has been a few people vectored the wrong way for intercepts or even into high ground. No chart, no ground miss.
PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 52N
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Approach plates
Because you would fail your I/R (or IMC rating) renewal if you don't use one? And it's the best way to be situationally aware whether you get vectors or not.
There are still plenty of airfields in France where radar isn't available (particularly at lunchtime) and a procedural approach is the only way to intercept.
There are still plenty of airfields in France where radar isn't available (particularly at lunchtime) and a procedural approach is the only way to intercept.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who is suggesting flying an IAP without having the plate?
The debate was vectors v. full-procedural.
It is true that, in an emergency, to fly an ILS all you need is to know the ILS frequency and get a vector to the localiser...
The debate was vectors v. full-procedural.
It is true that, in an emergency, to fly an ILS all you need is to know the ILS frequency and get a vector to the localiser...
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm calm!!!
Since gaining my IR and flying for a living I remember how little I really knew with a PPL/Night/IMC.
So having spent years having SOPs drummed into me - and flying airliners with no GPS only the instruments you'd expect in an older twin - it goes against the grain when people ask questions which infer there is an option regarding the use of approach plates.
I once ended up diverting to Shannon and finding that someone had removed all the Shannon plates bar an NBD approach from the other end. We were already tired and to find, at the end of a cold foggy night, that there were no plates either was almost the final straw.
Yes, radar vectors to an ILS are child's play, but when things go wrong ...
KR
FOK
Since gaining my IR and flying for a living I remember how little I really knew with a PPL/Night/IMC.
So having spent years having SOPs drummed into me - and flying airliners with no GPS only the instruments you'd expect in an older twin - it goes against the grain when people ask questions which infer there is an option regarding the use of approach plates.
I once ended up diverting to Shannon and finding that someone had removed all the Shannon plates bar an NBD approach from the other end. We were already tired and to find, at the end of a cold foggy night, that there were no plates either was almost the final straw.
Yes, radar vectors to an ILS are child's play, but when things go wrong ...
KR
FOK
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a ppl with an IMC rating.
When flying I have ALL of the approach plates. I sometimes fly the procedure for practice (especially NDB) and occasionaly you might find that the ILS is unservicable for some reason. I flew in to Filton once, the ILS was out so did a NDB/DME procedure.
Vectored ILS is easy but I alwasy have navaids tuned to build up a picture of where I am even if it not part of the ILS. So for exanple if tehre is a NDB on the airfield, and you have the DME from the ILS disaplyed, you've got a pretty good idea of where you.
personally really like instrument flying as I like mental challenge of it.
As someone else pointed out, the procedure is sometime flowing if coming in from the oterh side of the approach, say you are flying eastwards to wards manston and its a westerly wind, its easy enough to flying to the IAF (the NDB) and fly outbound and then turn to intercept the localiser. Easy for ATC as well I'd have thought.
Thats my two peneth
When flying I have ALL of the approach plates. I sometimes fly the procedure for practice (especially NDB) and occasionaly you might find that the ILS is unservicable for some reason. I flew in to Filton once, the ILS was out so did a NDB/DME procedure.
Vectored ILS is easy but I alwasy have navaids tuned to build up a picture of where I am even if it not part of the ILS. So for exanple if tehre is a NDB on the airfield, and you have the DME from the ILS disaplyed, you've got a pretty good idea of where you.
personally really like instrument flying as I like mental challenge of it.
As someone else pointed out, the procedure is sometime flowing if coming in from the oterh side of the approach, say you are flying eastwards to wards manston and its a westerly wind, its easy enough to flying to the IAF (the NDB) and fly outbound and then turn to intercept the localiser. Easy for ATC as well I'd have thought.
Thats my two peneth
