who continues to use their whizz wheel?
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The very best situational awareness comes from using GPS.
The biggest problem is that too many old-timers in GA think that a GPS is what you buy in Millets for £50
That's a useless piece of junk.
A decent moving map GPS totally transforms one's SA, and because you can get them battery-powered, one of those also solves the "total loss of electrics" scenario. I fly with a reasonable IFR GPS in the panel, but have a Garmin 496 permanently running in the yoke and could enter DCTs into that very fast. And carrying an Icom radio completes the backup picture. If you have comms, you can talk to ATC, and if can fly DCT legs, you are done! All you need is a working motor up front...
The argument then comes down to just how stingy a pilot should be if they want to fly at night, when visual nav is not possible, etc.
The instrument training scene is heavily geared up for the ridiculous situation where you lose most of your nav sources, but for a few hundred quid on Ebay you can sidestep the really dire scenario.
Even the VFR training scene is geared up for a totally minimum cost cockpit, where the most expensive aid is a £5 kneeboard. I don't think this is reasonable - because flying is not that cheap, it never was that cheap, not even 80 years ago, and spending a tiny fraction of one's flying budget on some "kit" transforms the whole scene so much.
By all means, if someone wants to fly like his grandfather did in WW2, let them. It's a free world, and Transair still sell the leather caps and goggles And the £500 "authentic" leather jackets 
But to pretend this is a justifiable approach for Mr Pilot Average 2010 is just daft.
But these debates will carry on because the CAA will never introduce GPS formally into the syllabus, because if they did, the schools would have to install it, and they pay the CAA good fees, so it will never happen.
The biggest problem is that too many old-timers in GA think that a GPS is what you buy in Millets for £50
That's a useless piece of junk.A decent moving map GPS totally transforms one's SA, and because you can get them battery-powered, one of those also solves the "total loss of electrics" scenario. I fly with a reasonable IFR GPS in the panel, but have a Garmin 496 permanently running in the yoke and could enter DCTs into that very fast. And carrying an Icom radio completes the backup picture. If you have comms, you can talk to ATC, and if can fly DCT legs, you are done! All you need is a working motor up front...
The argument then comes down to just how stingy a pilot should be if they want to fly at night, when visual nav is not possible, etc.
The instrument training scene is heavily geared up for the ridiculous situation where you lose most of your nav sources, but for a few hundred quid on Ebay you can sidestep the really dire scenario.
Even the VFR training scene is geared up for a totally minimum cost cockpit, where the most expensive aid is a £5 kneeboard. I don't think this is reasonable - because flying is not that cheap, it never was that cheap, not even 80 years ago, and spending a tiny fraction of one's flying budget on some "kit" transforms the whole scene so much.
By all means, if someone wants to fly like his grandfather did in WW2, let them. It's a free world, and Transair still sell the leather caps and goggles
And the £500 "authentic" leather jackets But to pretend this is a justifiable approach for Mr Pilot Average 2010 is just daft.But these debates will carry on because the CAA will never introduce GPS formally into the syllabus, because if they did, the schools would have to install it, and they pay the CAA good fees, so it will never happen.
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On the ground he should have time to get the answer close enough with the various rules of thumb and drawing a few vectors on a piece of paper.
I fail to see how the whizz wheel is relevant to drawing lines and planning a flight -(although I still have mine in the flight case and use the edge of it for drawing lines - but any piece of wood or plastic will work for this)
I doubt the slide rule had any impact in being situationally aware of the enroute airfields - one would have thought the chart (or memory) would be more relevant
Once again, I find a chart to be much more useful for identifying terrain and CAS than the whizz wheel. In FAA, I believe there have been no CFIT incidents involving TAWS equipped aircraft - increasingly common in panel mounted GPSs
I fail to see how the whizz wheel is relevant to drawing lines and planning a flight -(although I still have mine in the flight case and use the edge of it for drawing lines - but any piece of wood or plastic will work for this)
I doubt the slide rule had any impact in being situationally aware of the enroute airfields - one would have thought the chart (or memory) would be more relevant
Once again, I find a chart to be much more useful for identifying terrain and CAS than the whizz wheel. In FAA, I believe there have been no CFIT incidents involving TAWS equipped aircraft - increasingly common in panel mounted GPSs
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I'm a commerical helicopter pilot who still keeps a whiz wheel in my pocket when flying. Don't use it much, but useful when the wonderful computer system at work crashes or if standed somewhere away from a computer. I use it so infrequently that it's not economic to buy a flight computer. I do use it flight for fuel burn calcs.
There is nothing wrong with the whiz wheel - it was perfectly accurate enough for the longest range SAR flight done by a civillian aircraft. There is nothing wrong with a computer. The most unreliable feature of either system is the organic matter operating it.
Whatever you use, you need to be able to ensure the answer you get is correct.
There is nothing wrong with the whiz wheel - it was perfectly accurate enough for the longest range SAR flight done by a civillian aircraft. There is nothing wrong with a computer. The most unreliable feature of either system is the organic matter operating it.
Whatever you use, you need to be able to ensure the answer you get is correct.
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This is about flight planning. How you would press ENTER ENTER when you have no power whatsoever is beyond me?
But should that fail, I'd revert the the backup GPS which although is powered by the aircraft power, also has a build in battery and capable of running it for a further 5 hours or so....
But I am joking with you
, anything to help and for some people it may be wizz wheel. But don't discount GPS, a friend of mine would still be alive today had he had the situational awareness that a GPS *would* have given him. The clue is to know when something you rely upon is not working properly,in his case it was obviously his brain, and perhaps a moving map and/or TAWS would have alerted his brain to the fact that there was going to be an imminent impact with a mountain. These days GPS's are cheap (in flying terms) so to me is seems daft to resist buying one just in case the batteries go flat....But I digress, this post was about wizz wheels...sorry....but the same applies in some respects, don't discount technology just because....
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There is certainly a training 'black hole' in this respect.
Once again last summer I renewed my IR with the standard ILS, NDB, hold etc. just as I have always done. No progression here in 20 years.
Although I have flown the B737NG not once, at any stage, have I asked for, needed or used GPS for private flying or instructing.
The situation now is similar to the one years ago when I was being examined on Doppler and Omega systems yet being trained and tested using VOR. I never ever saw the older systems.
So whilst technology moves on the CAA lag behind leaving GPS training to the individual pilot or instructor.
Although I always carry a whizz wheel in my flight bag it has only ever been used for instructional purposes during the past 18 years.
Whilst PPL training might still have a use for the whizz wheel the CAA really need to catch up and recognize the benefit of the alternatives available.
KR
FOK
Once again last summer I renewed my IR with the standard ILS, NDB, hold etc. just as I have always done. No progression here in 20 years.
Although I have flown the B737NG not once, at any stage, have I asked for, needed or used GPS for private flying or instructing.
The situation now is similar to the one years ago when I was being examined on Doppler and Omega systems yet being trained and tested using VOR. I never ever saw the older systems.
So whilst technology moves on the CAA lag behind leaving GPS training to the individual pilot or instructor.
Although I always carry a whizz wheel in my flight bag it has only ever been used for instructional purposes during the past 18 years.
Whilst PPL training might still have a use for the whizz wheel the CAA really need to catch up and recognize the benefit of the alternatives available.
KR
FOK
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Whilst there should be some form of formalised training in the use of GPS and flight planning software, the problem is which of the miriad of GPS/software options does the CAA choose for training? To choose one would cause lawsuits from other suppliers. The wheel and visual nav techniques are the lowest common denominator so have stuck. But perhaps the PPL should have add on modules to train in the use of GPS (in particular) and flight planning software (ok not hard, but still need some basic training), the choice of which would be down to the individual flying school to match the equipment in their aircraft/facilities.
Whilst the "red tape", traditionalism and hoop jumping of flying will put many people off after their ppl (the realisation that you cannot rock up, jump in and go), I wonder how many give up because flying from a to b in anything a low time ppl is allowed to fly is not as thrilling as they expected? Maybe, just maybe some would stay if they realised how satisfying navigating and planning without electrons can be. And that is down (in part at least) to how well they are taught to plan and navigate.
Whilst the "red tape", traditionalism and hoop jumping of flying will put many people off after their ppl (the realisation that you cannot rock up, jump in and go), I wonder how many give up because flying from a to b in anything a low time ppl is allowed to fly is not as thrilling as they expected? Maybe, just maybe some would stay if they realised how satisfying navigating and planning without electrons can be. And that is down (in part at least) to how well they are taught to plan and navigate.
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The problem is with the training is that the whizz wheel is FORCED upon you. Surely alowing other reasonable methods as well as the whizz wheel should be allowed?
Anyway back to my original question, it seems that most PPLs invest in some form of GPS soon after the licence arrives and very few in fact continue to use the whizz wheel like they did for their QXC.
Anyway back to my original question, it seems that most PPLs invest in some form of GPS soon after the licence arrives and very few in fact continue to use the whizz wheel like they did for their QXC.
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Realistically one cannot do "proper" flight planning without access to the internet for: Notams, weather, winds aloft, freezing level, actual weather conditions, and even booking your aeroplane.
I agree internet access makes life easier, but is it the case that Notams, weather are unavailable by any other means?
I never flew Lysanders into France in the dead of night, I was only 5 when it was all over, but ???????
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I agree internet access makes life easier, but is it the case that Notams, weather are unavailable by any other means?
Weather... you could get it off the BBC, as many apparently do
Or look out of the window (OK for a short local flight). But all the serious data is accessible only online.Flight plans can still be faxed, or (generally) handed in at the airport tower, but how many pilots have a fax? So the internet is the only way too.
But the goode olde PPL training machine grinds on happily, churning out a load of pilots of which about 90% chuck it in the moment they get their PPL. The school has made its money by then.
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The very best situational awareness comes from using GPS.
Personally I don't see it like that. At the most basic level of situation awareness, GPS can be a major asset. In terms of complete SA GPS isn't a silver bullet. It can't be.The very best SA comes from knowing what you are doing, monitoring and anticipating what is coming next. That transcends specific items of equipment.
Much of this thread seems to focus on navigation. Calculation of a heading is really basic simple mental maths, wind triangles and all that quasi calculus nonsense can get rooted. Such basic and simple stuff and does not need a GPS, whizz wheel or whatever.
Whizz wheels are good for a vast range of calculations, and once one is practised very quick and efficient. A pilot who chooses to use one is not making life difficult or more unsafe for himself. Neither is one who ticks all the options on his Cessna 400 order form.
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it seems that most PPLs invest in some form of GPS soon after the licence arrives and very few in fact continue to use the whizz wheel like they did for their QXC
I gave up using the whizz wheel because I found working out which way the wind was going to carry me easy to do in my head and with reference to the ground features.
I bought a GPS as a backup to my navigation - not as a substitute to the whizz wheel.
If I ever take up IMC flying I guess I will need to find a way of calculating the wind drift in advance again. I would expect (and this may just be my ignorance of things IMC) only to be using it on the ground - so does it really matter if it is slide rule or electronics based?
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The very best SA comes from knowing what you are doing, monitoring and anticipating what is coming next
The way to keep pilot workload right down is to stick a map in front of his face, with the plane in the middle of it
A few years ago I had a bizzare situation. As a result of post-preflight messing about, the slaved compass (fluxgate magnetometer) system was switched to the FREE setting rather than the SLAVE setting. It took a few minutes for the HSI and all the GPS maps to get screwed up as regards orientation. But the plane remained in the centre of the map correctly, and the track line was displayed correctly (it just wasn't pointing forward anymore). If this happened without a moving map, and while manouvering (or in turbulence) so you can't read the mag compass, you would be well screwed, and so would the autopilot. It was a great demo how a GPS very visibly indicates that something is very wrong elsewhere.
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I think a lot of people on here must have had painful experiences with learning how to use the whiz wheel. Comments like 'forced upon us' and 'wasting lots of time learning how to use it' seem to come up a lot! My training to use it was something like 15 mins on the ground when I planned my first PLOG and then after that I was left to get on with it.
Formal training on how to use a GPS will annoy the people want to fly non-GPS aircraft. You can ask your instructor how to use it. You can download the simulator and play, which for the 430 is a great way of learning! If you want to fly a technically advanced aircraft/glass cockpit then there will probably be some mandatory ground school you need to complete to keep the insurers.
Use the whizz wheel to pass the nav exam, if you don't like it, use something else after! I certainly didn't feel that my instructor was breathing down my neck pressing me to use a whiz wheel when I was planning navs during training.
Formal training on how to use a GPS will annoy the people want to fly non-GPS aircraft. You can ask your instructor how to use it. You can download the simulator and play, which for the 430 is a great way of learning! If you want to fly a technically advanced aircraft/glass cockpit then there will probably be some mandatory ground school you need to complete to keep the insurers.
Use the whizz wheel to pass the nav exam, if you don't like it, use something else after! I certainly didn't feel that my instructor was breathing down my neck pressing me to use a whiz wheel when I was planning navs during training.
I'm a technically advanced luddite. A Navajo I fly has Garmin 530 & 430 with terrain & airspace warning, Avidyne MFD, XM satellite weather (surface radar uplink, TAFs & METARs), on board Wx radar, stormscope, digital fuel flow, JPI-760 engine data monitor, Mode S traffic uplink and a glass HSI. Not every aircraft I fly is so well equipped. Even some Kingairs I've flown didn't have that level of gear. Other types lacked GPS entirely with the job requiring frequentl flights around the N. Sea/Shetland/Orkney & N. Scotland. PNRs & ETPs were essential and very easily calculated with whiz wheel & updated in-flight with actual wind.
Most of my flight planning & plan submission is now online but from time to time I end up in places without internet access.
End result: I still carry my Jepp. CR5 to use when needed but take advantage of any advanced tool that's available.
Most of my flight planning & plan submission is now online but from time to time I end up in places without internet access.
End result: I still carry my Jepp. CR5 to use when needed but take advantage of any advanced tool that's available.
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Just as the 'principles of flight' by and large apply whether you're flying a glider, light aircraft or jet, so the 'principles of navigation' similarly apply.
The whizz wheel enables students to grasp and visualise the triangle of velocities etc., which can be difficult to grasp through electronic instruments alone.
The idea of introducing GPS training would, in my opinion, be beneficial at IMC stage upwards - which would require both instructors and students to be appropriately trained.
I appreciate the multitude of formats available on the market, but the individual flying school/instructor would have to train on the model fitted in the aircraft used for training - just as NAVCOMs vary, to some extent, in presentation and use.
The current situation where no approved training syllabus is available leaves the knowledge imparted open to variation and level of completeness.
I took my ATPL exams just after glass instruments were examined under 'instruments' - many were flying glass cockpits long before they were examined on them. The examination process should, ideally, lead industry not lag behind it. But aviation isn't alone in this respect.
KR
FOK
The whizz wheel enables students to grasp and visualise the triangle of velocities etc., which can be difficult to grasp through electronic instruments alone.
The idea of introducing GPS training would, in my opinion, be beneficial at IMC stage upwards - which would require both instructors and students to be appropriately trained.
I appreciate the multitude of formats available on the market, but the individual flying school/instructor would have to train on the model fitted in the aircraft used for training - just as NAVCOMs vary, to some extent, in presentation and use.
The current situation where no approved training syllabus is available leaves the knowledge imparted open to variation and level of completeness.
I took my ATPL exams just after glass instruments were examined under 'instruments' - many were flying glass cockpits long before they were examined on them. The examination process should, ideally, lead industry not lag behind it. But aviation isn't alone in this respect.
KR
FOK
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quote from Peter2000 (who has some very interesting articles on IFR flying on his website by the way, well worth a read)
"Another is the need to embrace modern navigation. Navigating with the map, stopwatch, and compass is a tedious and highly error prone procedure which remains popular with a hard core of "traditional" pilots and these will find it harder to get used to something a bit faster. I had no problem with this since I discarded all PPL navigation training the day after the PPL skills test, and used GPS backed up with conventional radio navigation (VOR/NDB/DME) as the sole means of going everywhere. The benefit of this is that the workload of flying is a tiny fraction of what it is during training"
Its on his page regarding ownership experience of the TB20
Socata TB20 Trinidad
"Another is the need to embrace modern navigation. Navigating with the map, stopwatch, and compass is a tedious and highly error prone procedure which remains popular with a hard core of "traditional" pilots and these will find it harder to get used to something a bit faster. I had no problem with this since I discarded all PPL navigation training the day after the PPL skills test, and used GPS backed up with conventional radio navigation (VOR/NDB/DME) as the sole means of going everywhere. The benefit of this is that the workload of flying is a tiny fraction of what it is during training"
Its on his page regarding ownership experience of the TB20
Socata TB20 Trinidad
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"Another is the need to embrace modern navigation. Navigating with the map, stopwatch, and compass is a tedious and highly error prone procedure which remains popular with a hard core of "traditional" pilots and these will find it harder to get used to something a bit faster. I had no problem with this since I discarded all PPL navigation training the day after the PPL skills test, and used GPS backed up with conventional radio navigation (VOR/NDB/DME) as the sole means of going everywhere. The benefit of this is that the workload of flying is a tiny fraction of what it is during training"
I've had others who dont use nav aids as sole means and were fine.