who continues to use their whizz wheel?

[AliB]

Lines on a chart, headings on a chart or plog - but not wind corrected.

Wind correction done roughly in my head and then adjusted as necessary to maintain track (obviously VFR only). If I change my plan in the air this still works and the winds aloft predictions are often inaccurate anyway.

GPS as a backup and cross check - worked too long in software to feel comfortable relying on it

[BackPacker]

How do you get the winds aloft then

Just fly low and use the wind as reported on the ATIS.

[Torque Tonight]

I have three whizzwheels: one from my PPL, one from the RAF and one from my fATPL. In each case after completing training the thing was put away and never used again.

In reality you don't need to work out your heading and drift to one degree accuracy because a) you're not going to maintain heading to one degree accuracy for the entire flight and b) the actual wind is not going to be exactly the same as the forecast wind. Good technique and some mental dead reckoning is all you need for VMC nav in the real world and so I don't even consider a GPS unit to be THE alternative to a whizzwheel.

[IO540]

I don't even consider a GPS unit to be THE alternative to a whizzwheel.

It never is, because the slide rule cannot be usefully used when airborne.

This topic comes up regularly. A lot of people get a bit religious about it, but really I don't think anybody cares about how somebody else plans their own route. The real debate is whether it should still be taught in the PPL, given that

- there is no set mandatory ground school (so any ground tuition is informal stuff, done at the discretion of the instructor(s))

- the slide rule takes up a LOT of ground school time

- the PPL training already omits a lot of much more useful practical stuff e.g. how to get weather off the internet

The slide rule is basically a gross mis-allocation of training resources.

Regarding GPS, much of the anti-GPS brigade thinks/claims that GPS users fly without any paper plans, but this is wrong. Most solid GPS-only-nav pilots have a written/printed plan for the flight. I certainly print everything needed for the flight plus diversions and would never rely wholly on an electronic solution.

[FREDAcheck]

bose wrote:

No one was suggesting a reliance on GPS. There is no place for a slide rule in modern aviation other than in the minds of the old farts

I'm sure you're a really great person too.

who have some romantic attachment to a long gone age.There are plenty of modern tools that will do the job much better, much more accurately and much faster. The CX2 is an example of a dedicated electronic tool. I have a couple of apps on my iPhone that do the job perfectly.

Nothing romantic. Just that I've got a CRP2 and I don't have a CX2, whatever that is.

Don't anyone give me the tosh about running out of batteries, its crap in this day and age.

I generally fly with a hand-held Garmin GPS that eats batteries. If I've forgotten to stuff 4 AAs into my pockets, I end up scrabbling about in my flight bag (fortunately I've got an autopilot) and have been known to run out.

Show me someone who can claim to hand fly and use a CRP at the same time and I will show you a liar.

Nope, I don't think I'd try to use a CRP in the air.

When I fly VFR I use a chart with the lines and the wind drawn on it and a GPS. I use my iPhone app to do the wind correction and write that on the chart. I then use a blend of GPS and visual navigation to make sure I am in the right place. I have yet to be unsure of position in my private or commercial careers.

Well, my VFR planning is not much different, except that I use a spreadsheet to produce a flight log from F214 wind forecasts. But if I have a night away without a computer, then sometimes it's the down to the CRP. One day I'll spend time figuring out how to do it on my iPhone. No romantic attachment to the CRP, and generally I'm an early adoptor of most new toys, just not happened to do so with flight planning. Each to his own.

Now the iPhone, there's something that really does run out of battery unpredictably. And I certainly don't have a USB charger in the plane...

[englishal]

The best "pre-GPS" VFR navigation technique was taught to me by an ex-harrier pilot I used to fly with....

Draw a line from A to B and note Mag heading, then mark on it 5 or 10 minute intervals based upon book speed. When you take off write down the time, and after 10 minutes you should be at your first tick mark. Will likely be around t/o + 10 mins, plus or minus a min or so. You can then make a note of the time difference and expect to reach the next mark at 10 mins +/- the time difference. You could write the ETA at the next tick.

When you pass the feature closest to the mark, note the time and write it on the chart by the mark. If you are too much left or right of it, adjust the heading a bit, either right or left and see what happens at the next tick mark...etc...If for some reason you miss one, well no bother, continue flying until the next mark and write down the time you pass it. Works very well, you are never more than 10 minutes from your last "known" position, never have to write on a plog as it is all on the chart.

Of course now I just make a flight plan in the GPS, and keep the ground track overlaid on the course and do it that way....

[S-Works]

Well, my VFR planning is not much different, except that I use a spreadsheet to produce a flight log from F214 wind forecasts. But if I have a night away without a computer, then sometimes it's the down to the CRP. One day I'll spend time figuring out how to do it on my iPhone. No romantic attachment to the CRP, and generally I'm an early adoptor of most new toys, just not happened to do so with flight planning. Each to his own.

Ah! The power of selective cutting and pasting.....

You have just made my argument for me. I suggest you read my post again and see if you can find where I suggested people should use GPS only or not do any flight planning.

My issue is specifically that we are still forced to teach an archaic device as part of the PPL curriculum. Lets imagine that you were taught to use a CX2 (electronic calculator) or an iPhone app during your PPL and then someone showed you a Whizz wheel. Most people would run a mile, yes there are anoraks who would use one for the romantic nostalgia just as there are anoraks (IMHO) who restore steam engines. But the main stream are modern electronic gadget users and would easily adopt an electronic tool and less mistakes would be made and quite likely less airspace busts.

Now the iPhone, there's something that really does run out of battery unpredictably. And I certainly don't have a USB charger in the plane...

Again you missed utterly the tone of my post. You have no right to be using an iPhone in the cockpit to flight plan either. Flight planning is:

planning |ˈplani ng |
noun
the process of making plans for something.

If things don't go to plan:

plan |plan|
noun
1 a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something

Then you have to make corrections in the air, this is achieved by MDR, 1/60 etc and not by pulling out any type of computer. Doing is negligent and makes you a danger to yourself, your passengers and other air users.

So just for clarity and to restate from an earlier comment: There is no room in modern aviation for a slide rule. There are better, easier to use, more accurate and more reliable tools available and like the FAA we should be looking to the future not to the past.

At no stage am I suggesting that anyone should be reliant on a single tool nor should they not PLAN. Safe aviation is about planning, accurate navigation is using a blend of all the tools available to you.

**PS - I can charge my iPhone in my aircraft.....

[FREDAcheck]

You have just made my argument for me. I suggest you read my post again and see if you can find where I suggested people should use GPS only or not do any flight planning.

Bose, it's always a joy to read your posts over and over again, but I don't think I misread it. I don't think I implied (or anyone can reasonably infer) that you suggest people should use only GPS. I was commenting on my use of CRP.

Again you missed utterly the tone of my post. You have no right to be using an iPhone in the cockpit to flight plan either.

I don't think I did. I didn't suggest using an iPhone to flight plan in the air. I was referring to your earlier restrained comment:

Don't anyone give me the tosh about running out of batteries, its crap in this day and age.

Respectfully, that's not true in my experience. Unless of course I misread that, and you are implying that battery life is "crap" in this day and age. As I say, my Garmin eats batteries, and my iPhone battery life is quite unpredictable.

I wasn't commenting on your views about the place of the CRP in training, and if you're saying there's a better way of teaching people about wind drift etc then I bow to your wisdom.

[S-Works]

What is the issue if a device battery runs flat? If you are in the PLANNING stage you should be on the ground and thus be able to replace the batteries. I have had a CX2 calculator for 7 years and it still has the same batteries. I have a Bose-x headset and always carry spare batteries for it which are the same type. I have no problem with battery life on my iPhone either but do carry a charger for it. So claiming you need a slide rule because the electrical variants eat batteries is just tosh. No doubt you will come up with a dozen example of how you do your flight planning in a draughty hangar with no power (we wont discuss how you get the weather and NOTAM) and thus if your battery went flat you would have no fall back.

There are many ways of teaching the triangle of velocities that are simpler and easier to understand than forcing the use of a slide rule. Personally I find it much easier to draw the triangle onto a map when I explain it to people. You would be amazed how quickly this sinks in with people compared to trying to teach it on a slide rule.

We have to face the fact that if we are to attract new blood to aviation then we have to cater for the 'nintendo generation' and make it attractive. My kids have zero interest in flying as they think it is full of old fuddy duddies who smell of piss and have a bizarre fixation on ancient ritual......

[Doodlebug]

Coming back to the original post, we shouldn't be arguing about what means are employed to plan a flight, rather we should be emphasizing the importance of planning as opposed to just leaping into an aircraft and setting sail, blindly relying on a gps.

[Miroku]

I use the met office site for the winds, 'go flying' website to calculate the headings, and then complete a flight plan sheet.

As back up I have a Pilot 3 black and white GPS.

If the weather changes and I decide to go elsewhere my whizz wheel is always in my flight bag. For diversions I use the GPS and some mental arithmetic to adjust for cross winds.

[A and C]

Its a good bit of kit for stopping my beer glass marking my desk!

[eharding]

Originally Posted by bose-x

My kids have zero interest in flying as they think it is full of old fuddy duddies who smell of piss

Have they tried to have you moved into a nursing home yet?

[S-Works]

I am writing from one.....

[AfricanEagle]

I don't own a GPS, and rarely use the whizz wheel during initial planning.

The few occasions I fly gps equipped aircraft I use the gps as a back up, occasionally checking to see if it agrees with my planning.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Seems a common push factor for GPS practicality is the battery life.

Simple answer - cigar lighter.

Cheers.

[Captain Smithy]

GPS as a backup and cross check - worked too long in software to feel comfortable relying on it

You and I both... But there again I am just a cynical avionics bloke.

Although to be fair GPS seems very reliable, at least in aviation use.

Smithy

[The Heff]

Lets hear it for the Whizz-Wheel!

I think there are some very strong arguments for keeping the whizz-wheel in aviation:

• I have one;
• I actually know how to use it;
• It does the job to a satisfactory level of accuracy;
• It does the job quick enough, too.

If I were to invest in GPS as a back-up, I would have an initial start-up cost of £300+ to buy one, then I'd have to spend time learning how to use it. I realise that money should never be considered an issue in General Aviation, but frankly, I'd rather spend the money on a PLB.

[20milesout]

I use the ASA pathfinder for preparation. Still, I always have the CR2 handy. Sometimes it is just fun to "visualize" where I am going.

[IO540]

I think there are some very strong arguments for keeping the whizz-wheel in aviation:

• I have one;
• I actually know how to use it;
• It does the job to a satisfactory level of accuracy;
• It does the job quick enough, too.

If I were to invest in GPS as a back-up

Anybody who thinks a GPS is some kind of replacement for the slide rule has never used a GPS

A GPS is a device which makes coffee but only above 1000ft AGL. It is nothing to do with flight planning.