Farnborough Control Zone?

[cessnapete]

It looks as though another swath of controlled airspace may be introduced in the future around Farnborough. Presumably to facilitate IFR departures to/from GWC,CPT, SAM, and to the north.
NATS are at present consulting on the various proposals.
At the moment IFR movements are worked by LARS before joining and leaving airways.
Hopefully this can be solved by small stubs to accommodate the ILS on 24/06 and a small extention above the airfield to allow imediate climb and descent into the airways system.
This is a very busy and complicated area for GA, and if not carried out sympathetically could result in many more airspace busts in the future.

[chevvron]

Farnborough IFR departures (and those from Blackbushe/Fairoaks/Lasham/Dunsfold) are actually worked by Farnborough Approach after departure but this is often combined with LARS West, the two frequencies (125.250 and 134.350) being coupled together so that to pilots, it sounds like one frequency. Likewise LARS North and East are often combined with the frequencies coupled when it's not too busy.
Is there a link to the consultation document?

[ab33t]

That has always been a difficult area for GA when traffic volume is high as a result of so many vfr and ifr flights from the surrounding areas . I depart from Blackbushe on a regular basis and at times have been routed via goodwood sfd for a flight to Amsterdam at 2300ft . I would second a revised structure around Farnborough

[cessnapete]

Just to clarify my position, I fly a light a/c from a strip west of Farnborough and have recently flown Farnborough based 'Exec' jets. So know the problems on both sides of GA, not a NIMBY!
Hopefully some thought goes into this proposed extention, otherwise we could end up with another zone from GWC, CPT, joining to the TMA north of Fab.

[chevvron]

ab33t: if you read the AIP, you will see that is the Standard Departure Route (SDR) for Blackbushe IFR traffic exitting the UK via DVR; if you're not IFR wishing to join CAS just say so, better still plan to route WOD - BNN - BPK - CLN.
cessnapete: are you sure you haven't simply seen the RA(T) for the forthcoming Farnborough Air Show? What you describe is suspiciously like the airspace I designed for it back in 2004.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by cessnapete

It looks as though another swath of controlled airspace may be introduced in the future around Farnborough.

Unlikely in the near future now that TAG have lost their planning application to increase movements from 28000pa to 50000pa........

Maybe a 5nm radius Rule 45 ATZ is the way to go with such aerodromes in Class G airspace with IAPs and sporadic IFR traffic........

[chevvron]

I agree about the 5nm rad ATZ, but sporadic IFR traffic? From where I sit at work, it seems every 2 or 3 minutes Farnborough phone to co-ordinate ILS traffic; now if you want sporadic, take a look at Lasham - oh you already have!!

[Talkdownman]

28000 equates to about 80 movements / day. City didn't have it easy getting CAS for 130 / day, even then it wasn't joined up with the TMA. Give Farnborough a 5nm radius ATZ then we will all have a dotted line to play with instead of posturing and muscle flexing.

Me? I have about 80 / year. Your ex-management has offered to fix us up with an ATZ for us to stay in to keep out of their way. Can't see our aerodrome operator liking that.....!

[chevvron]

I would have thought LGS would welcome an atz; surely it would go some way to deterring the d!ckheads who transit overhead Lasham without calling whilst winch launching is in progress.

[Talkdownman]

Originally Posted by chevvron

I would have thought LGS would welcome an atz; surely it would go some way to deterring the d!ckheads who transit overhead Lasham without calling whilst winch launching is in progress.

An ATZ would require ATC or FIS and/or licensed a/d with 2-way comms and Rule 45 compliance by all. I can't see any of that that being compatible with un-fettered gliding at a site notified up to 3 point 7. The calling won't make much difference to confliction with a wire. The likelihood of reliable effective two way with the launch point iCom is marginal. Far best to keep well out of the way of the overhead and the upwind.....which a King Air working Farnborough recently didn't, judging by an Airprox report. I cannot see what advantage an ATZ at Lasham would be to Farnborough ATS other than to 'legalise' closer vectoring for 06.....

[gpn01]

Originally Posted by Talkdownman

An ATZ would require ATC or FIS and/or licensed a/d with 2-way comms and Rule 45 compliance by all. I can't see any of that that being compatible with un-fettered gliding at a site notified up to 3 point 7. The calling won't make much difference to confliction with a wire. The likelihood of reliable effective two way with the launch point iCom is marginal. Far best to keep well out of the way of the overhead and the upwind.....which a King Air working Farnborough recently didn't, judging by an Airprox report. I cannot see what advantage an ATZ at Lasham would be to Farnborough ATS other than to 'legalise' closer vectoring for 06.....

I fly at a gliding site which is co-located with a powered operation, all within an ATC controlled ATZ. We have a good working relationship that has been built up over several years. Only problem is non-local traffic that request a transit through the zone that seem to think that the advice of ATC ("caution gliders") means that there's just the one glider (that they've spotted) and so they don't look for the other 10-20. Never understood why pilots, when told that a zone is very busy, choose to route through it rather than around it.

[BackPacker]

Never understood why pilots, when told that a zone is very busy, choose to route through it rather than around it.

Me neither, until I saw one of my club members plan a flight using nothing but his Garmin 296. Didn't know how to input his own waypoints, so he used the "waypoints" that were already in them. Most of these, of course, were airfields.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<From where I sit at work, it seems every 2 or 3 minutes Farnborough phone >>

I thought you'd joined the carpet slippers and Horlicks brigade, T??

[chevvron]

Yes but only part time; I decided I couldn't resist continuing to annoy pilots so I became a part time FISO at an airfield just 6 minutes from home!
The wife doesn't let me drink Horlicks anyway; I fall asleep too easily without it!!