Garmin G500
Basically the Eurocrats don't like the American way of doing it, because it is American.
Plus I reckon there is substantial "industry pressure" within Europe to create business for EASA 145 companies generating the EASA STCs.
I talked to some industry reps of Aspen and Garmin. They both told me that EASA has made their business so much "unfun" to do that given the choice, they'd consider selling to FAA land only. One guy, who had been posted in Calcutta at some time, tells me that the Eurocracy is starting to move into the direction of the notorious Indian paperpile harrassment organisation.
Anyhow, if the current administration in the US get their way, you might see a lot of hassle there as well. There are quite some folks in that administration to whom the EASA way of life suits just fine...
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Most avionic shops and maintenance organisations are going bonkers with the paperwork. They'd rather sell avionics and put them into airplanes than generate tons of useless paper.
Unfortunately the process of generating EASA STCs is a significant chargeable-workload generator within the industry and within EASA.
If nobody out there wanted this system, we would not have it.
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EASA STCs
As one of those people generating lots of those EASA STCs, I can certainly tell you that the cost we can charge the end-customer for an STC for each individual aircraft type for a Garmin G500 or Aspen EFD1000 does not come anywhere near the required investment, and we need to sell lots of data packs before we're likely to recoup our investment. I'd sooner use the FAA AML system so I could be selling equipment and doing installations in lots of the one-off aircraft projects we get asked about, than go through the constant hassles with whoever EASA choose to give the investigation to. However, if we didn't do the STCs, we couldn't sell the kit that we do manage to, and in the current climate, that would kill our business. So whether we agree with the EASA policy or not (and we didn't ask for it!), we have to live with it.
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Garmin G500 installation
Got the G500 installation almost ready, although the GDU will have to be replaced because the one received was a copilot's...
Aircraft is a 1980 turbo Arrow IV, assembled by Embraer in Brazil as a Corisco turbo EMB-711ST. Embraer received hundreds of Piper kits from 1975 to 1988.
The result, anyway, is pretty impressive, especially with the new Piper yokes !
Check the pictures:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
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Very nicely done. The GDU you have isn't a co-pilot's version - it's actually a helicopter unit (V4.01 software is only for rotary - fixed wing is currently V3.02 and the next release is V5.0).
Did the new yokes fit on the existing columns or did they have to be replaced as well?
Did the new yokes fit on the existing columns or did they have to be replaced as well?
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Can you get this sort of stuff fixed in brazil, if you get a failure away from a Garmin G500 dealer?
Here in Europe you will be VFR-only, backup instruments, and hoping to do a VFR flight to a dealer. Not quite AOG but similar.
This is nice kit but I wouldn't have it if flying long trips to the "south" here
Here in Europe you will be VFR-only, backup instruments, and hoping to do a VFR flight to a dealer. Not quite AOG but similar.
This is nice kit but I wouldn't have it if flying long trips to the "south" here
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Garmin G500 installation
Installing the new yokes is just an easy replacement.
I had to make the top ends, though. These were made of fiberglass and look much better than Piper's: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
I also "fiberglassed" the Garmin 495 supports, and fixed them to the yokes in lieu of the Piper logo. This resulted in a much cleaner solution than Garmin's 495 yoke craddle: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
I've done this before with the old yokes: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
There is plenty of Garmin support here in Brazil, although the equipment has to be shipped to the US for maintenance if necessary.
The ADF is an STEC 650D, bought through e-bay.
The original panel, back in 2006 was this: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
The latest modification before going for the G500, with a Sandel 3500, resulted in this: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
I had to make the top ends, though. These were made of fiberglass and look much better than Piper's: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
I also "fiberglassed" the Garmin 495 supports, and fixed them to the yokes in lieu of the Piper logo. This resulted in a much cleaner solution than Garmin's 495 yoke craddle: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
I've done this before with the old yokes: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
There is plenty of Garmin support here in Brazil, although the equipment has to be shipped to the US for maintenance if necessary.
The ADF is an STEC 650D, bought through e-bay.
The original panel, back in 2006 was this: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
The latest modification before going for the G500, with a Sandel 3500, resulted in this: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Last edited by arrow4t; 2nd Jan 2011 at 03:20.
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That's a great looking panel - how did you go about the new 'metal' instrument panel to replace the plastic original? What was the overall cost?
I will do mine the same if I win the lottery!
I will do mine the same if I win the lottery!
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Garmin G500 installation
The metal panel was rather simple to build.
Check these pictures here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Basically the old plastic overlay is removed and the old aluminum panel underneath is removed. A new, thicker one is built to suit, painted in the new Piper panel colors, and replaces the original one.
Same happens to the lower panels.
Check the panel being disassembled here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Nulites do the instrument lighting with great efficiency.
Don't ask me the overall cost of this upgrade: the bank manager wouldn't allow me to say...
But surely the result is worth every cent !
This is now a better than new airplane and still somewhat 30% cheaper than a 2003 SR22 Cirrus.
The whole series of pictures is here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Check these pictures here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Basically the old plastic overlay is removed and the old aluminum panel underneath is removed. A new, thicker one is built to suit, painted in the new Piper panel colors, and replaces the original one.
Same happens to the lower panels.
Check the panel being disassembled here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
Nulites do the instrument lighting with great efficiency.
Don't ask me the overall cost of this upgrade: the bank manager wouldn't allow me to say...
But surely the result is worth every cent !
This is now a better than new airplane and still somewhat 30% cheaper than a 2003 SR22 Cirrus.
The whole series of pictures is here:
MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
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PA28 panel
Our EASA STC uses the same method for panel replacement and we now have panels manufactured on a CNC mill for use by other installlers to save time and cost in making one by hand. So far, we've completred 4 PA28s and there are another 3 or 4 flying around Europe with our STC embodied.
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Wigglyamp, can you post (or link to) some pictures of these panels you've made ?
When I started this panel project, I googled "GARMIN G500 PIPER INSTALLATION" and found very little, except for:
- the PA28 panel picture in the beggining of this thread
- Advantage Avionics Advantage Avionics - Piper
- Red Eagle Avionics G500 Piper Arrow - Red Eagle Avionics
- Pennavionics Garmin G600 FAQ
On Pennavionics' Aspen 1000 page, there's one (old) PA28 with the new yokes too: Aspen EFD1000 FAQ
These yokes make the whole installation complete, and definitely update the plane. And of course, they are much more comfortable.
The whole thing with these yokes is the cost: Piper charges them at a premium, and then you still have to buy (or be ripped off for) the top ends (that's why I fiberglassed mine - with better result than Piper's).
This installation was done at ELETRONAVE http://www.eletronave.com.br in Curitiba, Paraná State, southern Brazil. Although they don't presently have a CNC machine, and the metal panel had to made twice, and despite some minor flaws in the engraving, I am very happy with the professional result and looks.
And the good news is that I had all the avionics rewired, thus eliminating kilometers of unused and old wiring. The bad news is that the timeframe took almost 4 months...
Next will be a new interior to replace the still original one, and eventually a new paint scheme.
One good hint is to use AircraftDoorsSeals' glareshield: AircraftDoorSeals.com
I did not know these before, and actually used the original glareshield. Eventually I will replace it.
Here are some pictures of an Argentinian friend's turbo Arrow III with this particular glareshield installed: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
When I started this panel project, I googled "GARMIN G500 PIPER INSTALLATION" and found very little, except for:
- the PA28 panel picture in the beggining of this thread
- Advantage Avionics Advantage Avionics - Piper
- Red Eagle Avionics G500 Piper Arrow - Red Eagle Avionics
- Pennavionics Garmin G600 FAQ
On Pennavionics' Aspen 1000 page, there's one (old) PA28 with the new yokes too: Aspen EFD1000 FAQ
These yokes make the whole installation complete, and definitely update the plane. And of course, they are much more comfortable.
The whole thing with these yokes is the cost: Piper charges them at a premium, and then you still have to buy (or be ripped off for) the top ends (that's why I fiberglassed mine - with better result than Piper's).
This installation was done at ELETRONAVE http://www.eletronave.com.br in Curitiba, Paraná State, southern Brazil. Although they don't presently have a CNC machine, and the metal panel had to made twice, and despite some minor flaws in the engraving, I am very happy with the professional result and looks.
And the good news is that I had all the avionics rewired, thus eliminating kilometers of unused and old wiring. The bad news is that the timeframe took almost 4 months...
Next will be a new interior to replace the still original one, and eventually a new paint scheme.
One good hint is to use AircraftDoorsSeals' glareshield: AircraftDoorSeals.com
I did not know these before, and actually used the original glareshield. Eventually I will replace it.
Here are some pictures of an Argentinian friend's turbo Arrow III with this particular glareshield installed: MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery
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G500
There are a couple of pictures at the following link, along with a couple of magazine articles on our installations. I have loads more but not on a site I can link to.
Installation - Lees Avionics Ltd
Installation - Lees Avionics Ltd
Last edited by wigglyamp; 2nd Jan 2011 at 18:14. Reason: spelling
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arrow4t
Very nice panel
I recommend a One-piece windshield when you come to do the glare shield, subtle change but well worth it.
You might want to get rid of the standard oat probe and use the garmin dispaly when you do it, we have not had ours connected yet but its on the cards.
The G500 looks fantastic, kidney anyone!
Very nice panel
I recommend a One-piece windshield when you come to do the glare shield, subtle change but well worth it.
You might want to get rid of the standard oat probe and use the garmin dispaly when you do it, we have not had ours connected yet but its on the cards.
The G500 looks fantastic, kidney anyone!
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Garmin G500 installation PA-28RT-201T
And the completed job in flight... MyAviation.net - Aviation Photo Gallery Simply fantastic !
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That's a nice panel. I like the EDM700 right next to the G500, where it should be
I recall some people in Europe having problems with EASA installations with the backup horizon lower down like you have. EASA insisted on it being next to the G500 and at the same level as the G500's horizon. But I have also heard from a friend who had that issue with an EFD-1000 and EASA climbed down on that occassion, after he threatened to abandon the project and revert back to his old avionics...
I recall some people in Europe having problems with EASA installations with the backup horizon lower down like you have. EASA insisted on it being next to the G500 and at the same level as the G500's horizon. But I have also heard from a friend who had that issue with an EFD-1000 and EASA climbed down on that occassion, after he threatened to abandon the project and revert back to his old avionics...
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G500 stanby instruments
Our STCs now have some alternative options for the position of the standby instruments which include a horizontal line below the G500 to suit particular aircraft panels.
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That's correct: the EDM is where it should always have been !
The EDM700 used to be on the copilot's side due to lack of space on the pilot's side before the G500. It was above the radio stack (ADF, DME, XPDR).
I thought it was OK, but far from ideal.
Some people have the EDM installed in lieu of the original EGT gauge on PA28s, which is a very poor solution: it's out of the pilot's field of view, plus it is difficult to operate.
The present position is perfect: within easy reach, and above all, in the pilot's field of view.
The ELT is there just because the space was free (actually I intended to install a FS450 fuel flow gauge, but I gave it up - too many bells & whistles already). The 12V is there because if power for the backup 296 and 495 is needed on either side of the panel/yokes there won't be too much hassle from the cables all around the cockpit.
As for the AI:
1. I prefer the speedometer where it originally was installed by Piper.
2. No questions were asked by the Brazilian authorities.
3. It is in the pilot's field of view, which is what counts.
4. There is a vaccum AI on the copilot's side.
The EDM700 used to be on the copilot's side due to lack of space on the pilot's side before the G500. It was above the radio stack (ADF, DME, XPDR).
I thought it was OK, but far from ideal.
Some people have the EDM installed in lieu of the original EGT gauge on PA28s, which is a very poor solution: it's out of the pilot's field of view, plus it is difficult to operate.
The present position is perfect: within easy reach, and above all, in the pilot's field of view.
The ELT is there just because the space was free (actually I intended to install a FS450 fuel flow gauge, but I gave it up - too many bells & whistles already). The 12V is there because if power for the backup 296 and 495 is needed on either side of the panel/yokes there won't be too much hassle from the cables all around the cockpit.
As for the AI:
1. I prefer the speedometer where it originally was installed by Piper.
2. No questions were asked by the Brazilian authorities.
3. It is in the pilot's field of view, which is what counts.
4. There is a vaccum AI on the copilot's side.
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Suprising you have not gone for a flow totaliser. I would not fly anywhere long-distance without mine. 1-2% accuracy, and the GPS connection tells you the constantly updated Landing FOB.