ELT safety benefit
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ELT safety benefit
Can anyone cite some aeroplane or helicopter accidents in Europe (including, of course, the UK) in which an installed ELT had a significant influence on saving life, or where such a device would have had a significant influence had one been installed?
How about PLBs?
Thanks.
How about PLBs?
Thanks.
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I do vaguely recall of serious-injury accidents where the wreckage was found sooner due to an ELT but (from memory) it was more due to the 121.50 emission than the 406MHz satellite-location signal.
I've never heard of the 406MHz signal making a difference to saving a life, but then I haven't read every accident report
I would strongly expect 406 to make a difference in ditching / life raft cases, but they seem rare in Europe anyway. Very rare indeed for the pilot to be out of VHF contact, and any such contact, never mind setting 7700, is likely to make the 406 part redundant.
The general view in the USA seems to be that 406 is nearly useless because most people (who might survive at all) manage to get a radio call out, and that narrows the search area to the extent that again the 121.5 emission (only) matters. This is a factor behind the significant back-pedalling in the USA and Canada on making 406 mandatory.
In Europe, legislation doesn't often get based on evidence
I've never heard of the 406MHz signal making a difference to saving a life, but then I haven't read every accident report
I would strongly expect 406 to make a difference in ditching / life raft cases, but they seem rare in Europe anyway. Very rare indeed for the pilot to be out of VHF contact, and any such contact, never mind setting 7700, is likely to make the 406 part redundant.
The general view in the USA seems to be that 406 is nearly useless because most people (who might survive at all) manage to get a radio call out, and that narrows the search area to the extent that again the 121.5 emission (only) matters. This is a factor behind the significant back-pedalling in the USA and Canada on making 406 mandatory.
In Europe, legislation doesn't often get based on evidence
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Come to that, has a First Aid kit ever saved a life? Mine only gets raided for an occasional aspirin or a band aid and all the rest of the contents are ignored completely. Yet we all carry one. Why? What good can they do?
(Apologies if you consider this is thread drift.)
(Apologies if you consider this is thread drift.)
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I am not aware of any incidences in Europe where an ELT has made the difference. Mobile phones - loads of them! ELTs - none - although to be fair manfatory fitment or carriage is a new requirement.
For what it is worth Steve Fossett's aircraft had a 121.5 ELT fitted (as do virtually all N-reg aircraft). But it presumably did not survive the impact. The wrist watch thingy is advertised to have a "100 mile range", the ones we used to use offshore - 10 times bigger, were good for 5 to 10 miles..........
For what it is worth Steve Fossett's aircraft had a 121.5 ELT fitted (as do virtually all N-reg aircraft). But it presumably did not survive the impact. The wrist watch thingy is advertised to have a "100 mile range", the ones we used to use offshore - 10 times bigger, were good for 5 to 10 miles..........
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I recall an incident in which the failure of the ELT to go off killed people.
The pilot was killed in the crash, which wasn't severe enough to trigger the ELT (or the trigger didn't work). The passengers survived, but none of them knew to press the red button just to be on the safe side. They had all died of exposure by the time help arrived.
These days when I'm taken on a flightseeing trip over mountains I always check to see where the ELT button is.
The pilot was killed in the crash, which wasn't severe enough to trigger the ELT (or the trigger didn't work). The passengers survived, but none of them knew to press the red button just to be on the safe side. They had all died of exposure by the time help arrived.
These days when I'm taken on a flightseeing trip over mountains I always check to see where the ELT button is.
Air Accidents Investigation: Cessna 500225
Cessna 172, G-TOME, 25 January 2001 at approximately
1300 hrs
Location: 10 nm South of Braemar, Grampian, Scotland
Cessna 172, G-TOME, 25 January 2001 at approximately
1300 hrs
Location: 10 nm South of Braemar, Grampian, Scotland
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Fossett hit the ground so hard that there was hardly a piece of the plane left over bigger than 1-2 feet in length. An ELT was not going to be a major issue there...
The problem with 406MHz is that it is fairly new. Very very few planes have them. I originally considered putting one in when I went N-reg and was quoted £2000 for the paperwork (well known UK shop)
The unit itself was £1500 (Artex). So I put in a cheap Artex unit which the plane was prewired for - 243+121.5MHz - for £200. It was legal....
Today you can fit a 406 for under £1k but there is another "ELT war" brewing, like the Mode S war. So most people won't have an ELT anyway.
In Europe there are very few scenarios where an ELT is going to yield statistically significant usefulness. Engine failures among the types of planes which will carry them (usually well maintained IFR tourers, basically) are very unusual.
Also, today, very few search vehicles have 406 capability. They have 121.5 but if they get a sat fix off the 406 signal but cannot find the 121.5 on their VDF, they end up wasting a lot of time. A GPS 406 unit would be better but very few fitted ones have that, due to the extra cost. A lot of handheld ones have GPS but due to the present "attitude" issues I suspect few VFR-only pilots will carry these.
I carry two 406+121.5 units, one of which has a GPS Plus a 406+121.5 installed one (Kannad AF Compact).
The problem with 406MHz is that it is fairly new. Very very few planes have them. I originally considered putting one in when I went N-reg and was quoted £2000 for the paperwork (well known UK shop)
The unit itself was £1500 (Artex). So I put in a cheap Artex unit which the plane was prewired for - 243+121.5MHz - for £200. It was legal....Today you can fit a 406 for under £1k but there is another "ELT war" brewing, like the Mode S war. So most people won't have an ELT anyway.
In Europe there are very few scenarios where an ELT is going to yield statistically significant usefulness. Engine failures among the types of planes which will carry them (usually well maintained IFR tourers, basically) are very unusual.
Also, today, very few search vehicles have 406 capability. They have 121.5 but if they get a sat fix off the 406 signal but cannot find the 121.5 on their VDF, they end up wasting a lot of time. A GPS 406 unit would be better but very few fitted ones have that, due to the extra cost. A lot of handheld ones have GPS but due to the present "attitude" issues I suspect few VFR-only pilots will carry these.
I carry two 406+121.5 units, one of which has a GPS
Plus a 406+121.5 installed one (Kannad AF Compact).
Hmmmyeah
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Be aware that the information about ELTs contained within the AAIB report linked above is now out of date.
The Cospas-Sarsat satellite system no longer listens on 121.5/243MHz. Unless a beacon transmitting on these frequencies is heard by a ground or air station, no one knows it has been activated. Only 406MHz is now monitored by the Cospas-Sarsat system.
The report is also slightly misleading in that its wording tends to imply that 406MHz beaons do not provide a 121.5MHz homing signal for radio direction finding equipment, when in fact most 406MHz devices retain a 121.5 signal for this very purpose.
The Cospas-Sarsat satellite system no longer listens on 121.5/243MHz. Unless a beacon transmitting on these frequencies is heard by a ground or air station, no one knows it has been activated. Only 406MHz is now monitored by the Cospas-Sarsat system.
The report is also slightly misleading in that its wording tends to imply that 406MHz beaons do not provide a 121.5MHz homing signal for radio direction finding equipment, when in fact most 406MHz devices retain a 121.5 signal for this very purpose.
Last edited by SyllogismCheck; 28th Jan 2010 at 22:38. Reason: typos.
