What is the definition of the title 'Captain'?
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
What a load of tosh.
Being the "captain" is about realising that you're in charge, that it's you making the command decisions, and that if you screw up there's nobody holding your hand and ready to take over.
It starts as you agree to accept the aircraft for your first solo.
It's a responsibility thing, not a gold hat thing.
Being the "captain" is about realising that you're in charge, that it's you making the command decisions, and that if you screw up there's nobody holding your hand and ready to take over.
It starts as you agree to accept the aircraft for your first solo.
It's a responsibility thing, not a gold hat thing.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Ontario, Canada
Other than formal airline operations, and flight in Africa (where captain's bars really do seem to make the difference!), it is my opinion that presenting one's self as "Captain" to others, is most likely to result in creating an instant basis for being received with ridicule at best, or actual dislike at worst.
It is a certainty that a GA pilot who struts around presenting themselves as "Captain" will in no time, encounter a non-captain pilot, who is very much more qualified and deserving of public adoration, and will seem very foolish and unworthy in the other pilot's shadow.
Unless you're going to Africa, leave the bars, wings, and Captain name badge pinned to your bulletin board, unless the director of flight operations, or chief pilot has handed them to you, and told you to put them on. (Isn't the big pilot watch enough anyway?)
It is a certainty that a GA pilot who struts around presenting themselves as "Captain" will in no time, encounter a non-captain pilot, who is very much more qualified and deserving of public adoration, and will seem very foolish and unworthy in the other pilot's shadow.
Unless you're going to Africa, leave the bars, wings, and Captain name badge pinned to your bulletin board, unless the director of flight operations, or chief pilot has handed them to you, and told you to put them on. (Isn't the big pilot watch enough anyway?)
Red On, Green On
Joined: May 2004
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From: Between the woods and the water
In the Senior Service Commander is one rung below Captain, and aircraft commander sounds a lot less pretentious, even if the aircraft is single-pilot. Commanders(RN) have three full stripes, which also looks a bit less pretentious than four, though still totally unnecessary in any aircraft not carrying fare-paying passengers/commercial freight.
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From: UK
I've always believed that when you're P1 you're pilot IN COMMAND. So, you could claim to be the Commander but not the Captain.
In the UK I thought that the only people entitled to legally use the salutation Captain are those who hold (o held) the rank in the forces.
I suppose some airline pilots may claim the rank of Captain whilst on duty but I've never understood those who continue to use the title when off duty......I wonder if they introduced themselves (or signed letters) as "First Officer Smith" before they were promoted? Imagine if everyone used their job title as part of their salutation? (apart from Doctors!)....Hello, I'm Bus Driver Biggles...
In the UK I thought that the only people entitled to legally use the salutation Captain are those who hold (o held) the rank in the forces.
I suppose some airline pilots may claim the rank of Captain whilst on duty but I've never understood those who continue to use the title when off duty......I wonder if they introduced themselves (or signed letters) as "First Officer Smith" before they were promoted? Imagine if everyone used their job title as part of their salutation? (apart from Doctors!)....Hello, I'm Bus Driver Biggles...
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From: In a control room with no radar...
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From: Paris
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From: In the boot of my car!
I suppose some airline pilots may claim the rank of Captain whilst on duty but I've never understood those who continue to use the title when off duty
Me Thinks it is a rank thing. I ferried a jet back from India with an Arab co pilot.
Once on the ground in Arab countries going out for a meal in the evening he bashfully asked if I minded him strutting down the streets in full pilot gear and 4 BARS the curly ones
while I looked the poor relative in a shirt and jeans yet to him it was status in front of his countrymen.It is a uniform and as such in certain parts of the world a needed addon. I could not believe in Africa walking past the military the amount of salutes you would get.
Even in Europe it facilitates your speedy movement around the airports and at least the ground handlers know who is the Captain and who to talk to when you land.
To passengers it denotes a level of professionalism and identifies who of the two pilots is the one who carries the can if anything goes wrong
Captain, Commander PIC ? I would be happy in a pair of jeans but my boss would not
Abroad you have to respect the different cultures and play to that if for nothing more than speeding along your passage not in the air but more on the ground.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 27th January 2010 at 22:17.
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From: In the boot of my car!
What a load of tosh.
Being the "captain" is about realising that you're in charge, that it's you making the command decisions, and that if you screw up there's nobody holding your hand and ready to take over.
It starts as you agree to accept the aircraft for your first solo.
It's a responsibility thing, not a gold hat thing.
Being the "captain" is about realising that you're in charge, that it's you making the command decisions, and that if you screw up there's nobody holding your hand and ready to take over.
It starts as you agree to accept the aircraft for your first solo.
It's a responsibility thing, not a gold hat thing.
If we accept that it is more of a rank thing then a Captain is someone who is not just responsable for his craft but in charge of people.
Hence surely if he is alone he is not in charge of people and the title is in appropriate?
In that situation he is a pilot or PIC?
Pace
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
In the UK I thought that the only people entitled to legally use the salutation Captain are those who hold (o held) the rank in the forces.
It's illegal to call the chief player in a football team the Captain?
Captain Smith of the RMS Titanic was an imposter?
Captain Beefheart faces arrest?
Put such thoughts from your mind gpn01, that way lies madness
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From: EuroGA.org
In aviation, a "Captain" means the person has an ATPL.
But unless you are a real serving heavy jet pilot, you will be held up to a widespread ridicule by 99% of pilots. This is true in Europe but I specifically also recall this from what I was doing the IR in the USA. Somebody with an ATPL called himself a Captain (slightly tongue in cheek I admit) and everybody from the examiners downwards fell over laughing.
The points made about Africa etc are ones I have heard elsewhere and I am sure they are 100% real, but that just illustrates that those places run on a lack of education, anarchy, ignorance and a blind fear of people in a uniform
What commands respect is not the ATPL (which could be a fake - plenty of walter mittys in aviation) but the uniform.
But unless you are a real serving heavy jet pilot, you will be held up to a widespread ridicule by 99% of pilots. This is true in Europe but I specifically also recall this from what I was doing the IR in the USA. Somebody with an ATPL called himself a Captain (slightly tongue in cheek I admit) and everybody from the examiners downwards fell over laughing.
The points made about Africa etc are ones I have heard elsewhere and I am sure they are 100% real, but that just illustrates that those places run on a lack of education, anarchy, ignorance and a blind fear of people in a uniform
What commands respect is not the ATPL (which could be a fake - plenty of walter mittys in aviation) but the uniform.
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From: In the boot of my car!
10540
ATPL does not mean you are a Captain? You can be a first officer with an ATPL.
I am no expert but imagine the term would have originally been military a Captain being in charge of people who are below him.
In the same way a Commander would not have been someone who commands an aircraft but someone who gives orders and instructions to others.
Definition
In a multi crew situation the Captain /Commander would be a rank thing where one percieved more experienced pilot makes descisions concerning the ultimate safety and passage of his aircraft and PAX and does so over another pilot ie co pilot.
Where there is one single pilot there is no rank and as such he is purely the Pilot of that craft.
May have that wrong???
As for Africa a uniform is regarded as someone being in authority whether it be in the military or otherwise.
Go without one and you wont go far
Agreed but there are plenty of Walter Mittys who dress up in uniforms the real ones carry documents to back up their uniforms.
Pace
ATPL does not mean you are a Captain? You can be a first officer with an ATPL.
I am no expert but imagine the term would have originally been military a Captain being in charge of people who are below him.
In the same way a Commander would not have been someone who commands an aircraft but someone who gives orders and instructions to others.
Definition
•someone in an official position of authority who can command or control others
Where there is one single pilot there is no rank and as such he is purely the Pilot of that craft.
May have that wrong???
As for Africa a uniform is regarded as someone being in authority whether it be in the military or otherwise.
Go without one and you wont go far
What commands respect is not the ATPL (which could be a fake - plenty of walter mittys in aviation) but the uniform.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 27th January 2010 at 23:16.
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From: North America
Company, rather than aviation regulation designation.
I can’t quote a regulation or point to a source document. The aviation regulations define pilot in command, solo, sole manipulator of the controls, and others, but I am not aware of such a definition for “Captain”.
The first time I became a “Captain” was when I finished my upgrade training and signed off of the paperwork to take a plane full of passengers to their destination. Captain is a company designation, and the term is defined in the company flight manuals.
It may have had its origins when multi crewed flight decks were introduced to differentiate who was in ultimate charge. I suspect the terms “Captain” “First Officer/Copilot” have their Genesis in the ancient traditions of the maritime industry.
The first time I became a “Captain” was when I finished my upgrade training and signed off of the paperwork to take a plane full of passengers to their destination. Captain is a company designation, and the term is defined in the company flight manuals.
It may have had its origins when multi crewed flight decks were introduced to differentiate who was in ultimate charge. I suspect the terms “Captain” “First Officer/Copilot” have their Genesis in the ancient traditions of the maritime industry.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
"This is the Commander of your ship"
Nah, doesn't scan. Reparata & The Delrons would never have got to number 13 with a title like that.
Nah, doesn't scan. Reparata & The Delrons would never have got to number 13 with a title like that.
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From: W.London
captain a courtesy title
I'm pretty sure that outside the military, where Captain is a fairly junior rank in the army and a fairly senior rank in the navy, the term Captain has no real legal definition at all and was really introduced as a courtesy title. The person in legal charge of a seagoing civilian vessel is its master (from master mariner) and that applies to a small yacht as much as to the QM2 and in the air the equivalent is the aircraft's commander. I believe that the officer in charge of a naval vessel is also its commander and for most ships would probably hold a more junior rank than captain.
The courtesy title of Captain seems to have been introduced by the shipping lines in the nineteenth century along with the four rings probably to reassure their passengers that the person they were entrusting their lives to was of similar rank and deserving of equal respect to the commander of a capital naval ship and the term gradually became widespread to indicate the master of any merchant ship. When the airlines arrived between the wars they also wanted to reassure their passengers that their lives were not being entrusted to some daredevil flyer so borrowed the term (and the sleeve rings) along with first officer etc. from the shipping lines.
However I think it's an attitude of mind and there's a big difference between someone whose mental approach to flying is that they are taking command of an aircraft and solely responsibility for the safe completion of a flight and the sort of "pilot" who "goes for a drive in the sky". I would never though go round describing myself as a captain . There was an interview with the first female 747 Captain Lynn Rippelmeyer on the BBC programme "Reaching for the Skies" a few years ago and her comment that the responsibility she takes is the same whether captaining (her word) a 747 full of passengers or captaining a Piper Cub always seemed to express this responsible attitude to what we do in the air rather well.
The courtesy title of Captain seems to have been introduced by the shipping lines in the nineteenth century along with the four rings probably to reassure their passengers that the person they were entrusting their lives to was of similar rank and deserving of equal respect to the commander of a capital naval ship and the term gradually became widespread to indicate the master of any merchant ship. When the airlines arrived between the wars they also wanted to reassure their passengers that their lives were not being entrusted to some daredevil flyer so borrowed the term (and the sleeve rings) along with first officer etc. from the shipping lines.
However I think it's an attitude of mind and there's a big difference between someone whose mental approach to flying is that they are taking command of an aircraft and solely responsibility for the safe completion of a flight and the sort of "pilot" who "goes for a drive in the sky". I would never though go round describing myself as a captain . There was an interview with the first female 747 Captain Lynn Rippelmeyer on the BBC programme "Reaching for the Skies" a few years ago and her comment that the responsibility she takes is the same whether captaining (her word) a 747 full of passengers or captaining a Piper Cub always seemed to express this responsible attitude to what we do in the air rather well.
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From: UK
So the chief campanologist in a bell tower should be arrested for calling him or herself the "Bell Captain"? (ditto the bell boy supervisor in a hotel).
It's illegal to call the chief player in a football team the Captain?
Captain Smith of the RMS Titanic was an imposter?
Captain Beefheart faces arrest?
Put such thoughts from your mind gpn01, that way lies madness
It's illegal to call the chief player in a football team the Captain?
Captain Smith of the RMS Titanic was an imposter?
Captain Beefheart faces arrest?
Put such thoughts from your mind gpn01, that way lies madness
NB: I accept entirely that the rank of Captain can be very useful when outside the UK, particularly when the climate is warmer than here ;-)
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From: In the boot of my car!
GPN
Having googled all over the place I have come to my own conclusions.
The Term Captain or Commander in relation to a vessel whether sea or air bound is only relevant when that Vessel requires a crew.
The Captain is ultimately liable for the safe passage of that vessel and its occupants and his title denotes that fact to the crew who work with him.
That crew maybe a minimum of one co pilot or on an airliner could include the pilot/pilots and the cabin crew.
As far as I can determine NO crew NO Captain/ Commander (the definition of a commander is one who commands or gives orders to others ie the wife
Hence single pilot there cannot be a Captain there cannot be a Commander just a plain Pilot.
How the terms have come to be used nowadys is very grey and not really fitting.
Joe Bloggs was the pilot of the aircraft that bounced on landing on the runway. Joe Bloggs was the Captain of the aircraft which requires a crew/co pilot which bounced on landing on the runway.
Pace
Having googled all over the place I have come to my own conclusions.
The Term Captain or Commander in relation to a vessel whether sea or air bound is only relevant when that Vessel requires a crew.
The Captain is ultimately liable for the safe passage of that vessel and its occupants and his title denotes that fact to the crew who work with him.
That crew maybe a minimum of one co pilot or on an airliner could include the pilot/pilots and the cabin crew.
As far as I can determine NO crew NO Captain/ Commander (the definition of a commander is one who commands or gives orders to others ie the wife
Hence single pilot there cannot be a Captain there cannot be a Commander just a plain Pilot.
How the terms have come to be used nowadys is very grey and not really fitting.
Joe Bloggs was the pilot of the aircraft that bounced on landing on the runway. Joe Bloggs was the Captain of the aircraft which requires a crew/co pilot which bounced on landing on the runway.
Pace
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
What about retired airline captains who continue to prefix their name with "Captain" even if they dont hold any flying licence whatsoever?
I wondered if there is some nautical tradition that has been carried over to allow ex-civil airline captains to retain their "rank" title
I wondered if there is some nautical tradition that has been carried over to allow ex-civil airline captains to retain their "rank" title