IR for people that don't want to become professional pilots.

[AdamFrisch]

Assuming the JAA rules stay as they are today, at some point I might want to get an IR. Not now, but maybe in 1-2 years time.

My problem is that I'm a freelancer. I get my jobs very suddenly - often I get confirmed on a job only 2 days before it's happening. My job takes me to all corners of the world and the jobs vary in length, i.e., making plans ahead of time is impossible - it's just the nature of my work.

Now, this is the problem with the IR. It all seems to be geared towards pilots who are either unemployed elsewhere, or studying.

Is there any place in England, Europe, anywhere where you can do either a very condensed theory course (and ideally not one that has one batch every 6 months as if I have to pull out in the last minute due to work, I'd like to not have to wait another 6 to get on the next one) or where you can do most of it on your own as in a distance course?

The flight training is more flexible - it's just the time nature of the theory course that is the killer for me.

[TWR]

You can do the theory in distance learning. You have 12 months to complete it. If you have some previous technical background you'll find a lot of the matter is already known.

Apparently it is a major problem to find sufficient FTOs in the UK, so maybe you should look abroad. Since you already have a PPL you can make a trip out of the (few) required class attendances.

[julian_storey]

Or get an FAA IR.

You can study for the ONE written exam whenever you get time and you can sit the exam either in the USA of at a couple of places here.

[sternone]

If you don't want a career as an ATP go for the FAA-IR.

[AdamFrisch]

Can you do a complete distance course for JAA IR? That'd be ideal. I didn't think you could.

FAA IR is tempting as I'm there so much, but I would like to convert it to a JAA at some point as well, so I can fly with it here. I've just heard that the FAA IR to JAA IR is a world of pain. With a JAA IR already in hand I can get the FAA IR just by validation, no?

[sternone]

We are all flying over here in Europe with our FAA-IR.

[S-Works]

We are all flying over here in Europe with our FAA-IR.

That is a bit of an exaggeration.......

There are many FAA IR holders in Europe who choose to operate on the N reg in order to gain access to the IFR system without the percieved hassle of doing a JAA IR. However I would not accept the assertion that everyone is doing it over here in Europe.

Personally if you want a JAA IR, go and do it, it is easy enough to do with a little diligence. I have JAA and FAA amongst my little collection and have found none of them difficult to do. The JAA IR is mostly the same theory with more questions on each area plus some superfluous stuff that you don't need to know. A good IR TK school will give you proper course direction notes and what starts out as several large volumes of gumph can actually be distilled down to a single A4 binder of similar size to the Jeppesen FAA Instrument/Commercial manual. None of it is rocket science.

There is a conversion path between either system. To FAA IR to JAA IR you do the exams and 15hrs of training (there are some JAA states that allow less) and then you sit the skills test. Generally speaking if you have trained in the USA it can take you close to the 15hrs training to get comfortable enough with the airspace etc to take the skill test.

If going JAA to FAA you can either take the IFP test and a IPC or you can take the IR test, 3 hours training and a check ride. The IFP and the IR tests are virtually the same, just 10 questions less for the IFP. If you have a 61.75 certificate and just want IR privileges for occasional use then you can probably get away with the IFP. If you are going to own an N Reg then it is worth going down the route of getting a full US certificate and doing the US test rather than the IFP.

[TWR]

Can you do a complete distance course for JAA IR? That'd be ideal. I didn't think you could

Yes you can. You receive all the required books at home together with some DVD and Jeppesen student guide. You commiunicate with the instructors via a dedicated intranet on which you also make your progress checks. You don't have to leave your home very often...

You still need to study a lot, but the problem is even the FTOs are used to prep students for the ATPL, which means their question database contains only the ATPL/CPL questions. The difference with the actual written exams is quite remarkable.

Also, some parts of the theory content are just a review of what you already covered in the PPL syllabus.

[Mariner9]

Can you do a complete distance course for JAA IR? That'd be ideal. I didn't think you could

Adam, distance learning for the JAR IR writtens is certainly achievable, despite your job. I've just completed the CATS on-line course that was backed up with a few sessions of groundschool held over weekends. My job is similar to yours in that it takes me overseas at short notice, but I passed all the writtens 1st time without too much effort.

BTW, just to correct TWR's earlier post, you have 18 months to complete the exams (then a further 3 years to complete the flying)

Suggest you give Stuart at CATS (google it) a call.

[Cusco]

Yep: CATS is the way to go...........

Cusco

[IO540]

Is mandatory class attendance not required for the JAA IR? It is only if one is doing an ICAO -> JAA IR conversion that the mandatory attendance disappears (ref: Lasors).

The other issue is that one has to do the JAA IR at an FTO, and most pilots don't have one at their local airfield, so this also means some hotel residence for the flight training, for most people.

50/55hrs of flying, with no credit for any previous experience. Unless again converting from an ICAO IR when the 50/55 reduces to ~ 15 and the figure depends on which JAA country you do it in.

The FAA IR needs access to an N-reg plane.

[172driver]

You say you travel a lot worldwide. This may lead to another consideration: any FAA license is a lot quicker and easier to validate overseas than a CAA one. This has to do with the internal workings of the CAA, the Data Protection Act and probably a few other things. Under normal circumstances, a CAA conversion takes about 2 weeks and costs some money (I know they can and do help in exceptional cases, but this is the norm). FAA is about 3-4 days and free.

So - IF you may wish to use your license somewhere other than JAR and/or FAA land, then it may well be an idea to do the FAA IR and then the conversation to JAR IR. Gives you both.

[IO540]

Also, most non-JAA CAAs validate FAA licenses more or less directly into their own national ones. Sometimes there is an oral exam, sometimes 1 exam, sometimes 1 flight test, and quite often just a payment.

The FAA stuff is much more doable for a busy person. However, while one can do all the training over here, the European checkride option is now severely restricted, so I would suggest just going to the USA and finishing it there in a hard ~ 2 week session. Much safer.

[TWR]

The required class attendance is nothing more than a consolidation course.

If you know your stuff you can do this in one weekend.

[debiassi]

If you want the path of least resistance, i think its far less hassle to go down the FAA route. Its a bit of a pain to get the licence converted initially as you have to get authorizations, confirmations etc but the FAA route in my opinion is a far more common sense approach to an IR whereas the JAA route is purely designed with commercial flight in mind. To convert your UKK JAA licence you can either get a piggy back 61.75 and attach the IR to that but if you dont intend to at some stage to an FAA CPL then you would be better advised to obtain an FAA stand alone license to attach the IR to. It is actually possible to complete the FAA route and gain the rating without actually leaving Europe providing you have access to an N registered aircraft to complete the flight test in which certainly makes things easier.
Check out the following site as it gives a full insight into the process.
How to get an FAA Instrument Rating ? Golf Hotel Whiskey

[IO540]

The only time one needs to convert any UK papers is if doing the 61.75 piggyback PPL route, which is extremely inadvisable these days.

During 2009, hundreds (at least) of European FAA 61.75 pilots were sent scrambling all over the place trying to get the ICAO engligh language proficiency statement added to their piggyback licenses. Some of the stories I've heard would - one hopes - make nobody ever want to do a 61.75 FAA PPL again...

And if you do a standalone FAA PPL, and the FAA IR, you need nothing, zero, zilch, from the UK CAA. You just end up with two loads of completely separate papers: the UK ones, and the US ones.

Then, on any flight, you can choose which sets you want to fly on, and in many cases you will be able to use either one.

Later, you will be able to choose which of these is presented for a validation into another country's papers.

It's a much better way. A 61.75 license is a house of cards.

[AdamFrisch]

Just for once - just once - wouldn't it be nice if something, anything connected with aviation was easy? I so do look forward to the day that would happen (never).

I suppose it'll have to be the standalone FAA route to an IR and then convert. TSA clearance here we come. More time wasted. Months before I can even go near an aircraft over there. And I thought I'd do a seaplane rating in the meantime on the quick...

May I bitch a bit more? Went to Gatwick to get CAA to exchange my Swedish JAA PPL for a UK one. They quickly relieved me of £176. Instantly, in fact. However, now 6 weeks later the license still hasn't turned up. They say it might be another 3 more weeks. Maybe I should wait 9 weeks with my payment next time, see how they'd take to that?

By the time I get the bleeding paper something else will be due - don't you just know it.

[IO540]

More time wasted. Months before I can even go near an aircraft over there.

Not that bad, Adam. I sent you a URL to a detailed checklist for this stuff.

Wot you do is you get your ducks in a row while still over here.

Medical
FAA PPL maneuvers
PPL Written exam
Night x/c flights
TSA
I-20
Visa
Oral study

Then go to the USA and within a few days you will have a standalone FAA PPL.

Now you can fly an N-reg worldwide VFR.

You can also fly a G-reg worldwide VFR (Ref ANO art 26).

Then you can go back to the UK, and get some more ducks in a row.

IR Written exam
IR 250nm x/c flights, or other flights as is convenient
TSA (already done)
I-20
Visa
Oral study

and go to the USA and in 2 weeks you will have a shiney new IR.

Now you can fly an N-reg, worldwide, VFR/IFR. Fantastic.

You can also fly a G-reg, worldwide VFR, and worldwide IFR but only OCAS (not very useful).

And later, if forced, you can get a JAA IR by doing some flying at a European FTO and an IR checkride, plus the 7 exams. I would seriously consider doing all this in Greece (much better weather, more relaxed, easier procedures, etc). The UK CAA IR exams are done at Athens. Can't avoid the 7 exams though - unless you follow yet another route involving a specific non-JAA country, and there are some complications there (probably worth doing for the CPL/IR route because then you would have 14 exams).

American pilots have it much easier (PPL and IR at the same school etc) but here we pay the price for European protectionism.

[BillieBob]

The required class attendance is nothing more than a consolidation course. If you know your stuff you can do this in one weekend.

Not entirely correct - Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.055 states "The amount of time spent in actual classroom instruction shall be not less than 10% of the total duration of the course." Given that the total duration of the modular ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge course is a minimum of 650 hrs it would be a rather busy weekend!

[IO540]

Not for a PPL/IR