Super New UK RT Phraseology
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Thank you BillieBob, that was my understanding the origin of the new FIS too.
What is worrying though, is that when EASA does get involved, all of these new, non-standard flight information services (in name and, in most cases, detail) would probably have to change again.
What is worrying though, is that when EASA does get involved, all of these new, non-standard flight information services (in name and, in most cases, detail) would probably have to change again.
In fact controllers are specifically forbidden to give a higher level of service than what is requested.
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I seem to remember that traffic information can (must) be provided under a basic service, when ATC believes a collision is imminent. Of course they aren't looking out for such a situation....but if they happen to notice it, then they will pass on the information.
I could have imagined that, but I'm pretty sure it was in the documentation published about the 'new' services.
dp
I could have imagined that, but I'm pretty sure it was in the documentation published about the 'new' services.
dp
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http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...=1#post5421895
in the ATC forum gives an excellent clarification...
http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...=1#post5421895
in the ATC forum gives an excellent clarification...
Leader 3: 'extreme end of Farnborough North coverage'.
This shouldn't be a problem. I spent many of my final days operating LARS North sometimes combined with LARS East, and this gave me time to 'experiment' with the radar feeds available and recommend what I thought should be used. I found that to the north, coverage using Debden 23cm was far superior to coverage from the Stansted 10cm,(f'rinstance with Debden, you could see traffic almost to ground level at Wyton) and to the north west, the 'new' Heathrow 10cm (near T4/Hilton Hotel) was far better than the Heathrow 23cm (T1a car park), thus providing good solid low cover above about 1500ft amsl throughout the whole of the notified LARS North area. Course my recommendation fell on deaf ears as it was not in line with what the techies told us, so they're probably still using Stansted 10cm and Heathrow 23cm, which gives them the excuse to say 'Basic service only due to poor radar performance' etc.
This shouldn't be a problem. I spent many of my final days operating LARS North sometimes combined with LARS East, and this gave me time to 'experiment' with the radar feeds available and recommend what I thought should be used. I found that to the north, coverage using Debden 23cm was far superior to coverage from the Stansted 10cm,(f'rinstance with Debden, you could see traffic almost to ground level at Wyton) and to the north west, the 'new' Heathrow 10cm (near T4/Hilton Hotel) was far better than the Heathrow 23cm (T1a car park), thus providing good solid low cover above about 1500ft amsl throughout the whole of the notified LARS North area. Course my recommendation fell on deaf ears as it was not in line with what the techies told us, so they're probably still using Stansted 10cm and Heathrow 23cm, which gives them the excuse to say 'Basic service only due to poor radar performance' etc.
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thats interesting about the radars being used and the wavelengths.
so when you only get a basic service its not just controller work load but can be a deficiency in the equipment.
so when you only get a basic service its not just controller work load but can be a deficiency in the equipment.
I wouldn't say a deficiency in equipment; NATS have provided (at their own expense ie you don't pay) the best possible kit for the Farnborough LARS task; more like inexperienced controllers operating 'by the book' rather than seeking the means to provide the BEST SERVICE POSSIBLE at all times, which is what I was taught to do when I first started at Farnborough way back in 1974.
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In my experience Farnborough LARS (particularly 125.25, the frequency I use most) provide a very good service, and often go beyond what they are required to provide.
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i would agree with Captain Stable that Farnbrough south do provide a good service and generally are very accommadating.
And as this is the most congested airspace in the country it is nice to know that your going to get a good service even if it is just a basic service.
its the bit about inexperienced controllers that could be worrying, dont mind if they do things by the book as they are trained too.
Just so long as they maintain standards that we have got acustomed too.
And as this is the most congested airspace in the country it is nice to know that your going to get a good service even if it is just a basic service.
its the bit about inexperienced controllers that could be worrying, dont mind if they do things by the book as they are trained too.
Just so long as they maintain standards that we have got acustomed too.
Don't worry, they're not allowed to operate 'solo' until they've got through a very rigorous training regime; but like in all things, you don't really start to learn and develop yourself until you're on your own with no mentor sitting next to you to give advice. On LARS North f'rinstance, the boundary is well to the south of Huntingdon, so when you're newly certificated, you play safe and freecall traffic to 'en-route', whereas an old lag would hold on for a few miles more and give you a radar handover to Cottesmore. Likewise on east, if you're routing SFD - LFAT, you can still be seen on radar well outside the east area, so I personally would allow people to stay on frequency just that little bit longer so that, if the worst happened, I could pinpoint your position to D & D.
