Split legs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2009
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: N.YORKSHIRE
Split legs.
Is it possible to split P1 time between two pilots on the same flight? One pilot doing the take-off at A, flying to waypoint B. Second pilot taking the controls over B and flying to and landing at C.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
Legally speaking, yes.
But there's a few practical issues to consider. Are you physically going to swap seats or is one of the pilot comfortable to fly as PIC in the RHS? And what happens if the first P1 puts the aircraft in a situation (marginal weather, low on fuel, unusual attitude, you name it) that is unacceptable to the second P1, just before the switchover point?
Being PIC isn't about manipulating the controls. It's about being in command of the flight and bringing it to its safe conclusion.
But there's a few practical issues to consider. Are you physically going to swap seats or is one of the pilot comfortable to fly as PIC in the RHS? And what happens if the first P1 puts the aircraft in a situation (marginal weather, low on fuel, unusual attitude, you name it) that is unacceptable to the second P1, just before the switchover point?
Being PIC isn't about manipulating the controls. It's about being in command of the flight and bringing it to its safe conclusion.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
A while ago I asked the CAA about such things. An instructor wanted to do a 'training flight' for licence revlidation with a pilot using a tailwheel aeroplane, but didn't have tailwheel qualifications himself...... He intended to 'take over as PIC' once they were in flight and before the landing, with the time as PIC being 1 hr....
The CAA told me that they weren't keen on 'in-flight PIC changes' for a number of reasons. They also agreed that an instructor must be qualified to act as PIC in any aircraft in which he/she conducts any training.
Best solution is for one pilot to log PIC from A to B to C and the other to log PIC from C to B to A.
The CAA told me that they weren't keen on 'in-flight PIC changes' for a number of reasons. They also agreed that an instructor must be qualified to act as PIC in any aircraft in which he/she conducts any training.
Best solution is for one pilot to log PIC from A to B to C and the other to log PIC from C to B to A.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
Beagle, I would have thought that the explanation of the CAA in that situation would be even simpler. In order to act as PIC of an aircraft you have to be qualified on type. Since the instructor did not have a tailwheel endorsement, he/she would not be qualified to command a tailwheel aircraft. Simple.
I know there are a few exceptions to this with regards to multi-pilot aircraft on long legs with cruise relief pilots on board, but that doesn't seem to be applicable here, does it?
I know there are a few exceptions to this with regards to multi-pilot aircraft on long legs with cruise relief pilots on board, but that doesn't seem to be applicable here, does it?
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 399
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From: suffolk
With respect, if you really are both so short of hours that you have to split a flight, or so short of cash that you cannot aford to land in order to make two flights ....are you asking the right questions..?
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
The answer is in Art 35 of the ANO
Nothing wrong at all with one person logging part of the flight as PIC and another logging the rest of it as PIC. Interestingly enough, although we all do it there is no requirement to log the start and finish times, just the duration.
Final thought, split legs are very definitely a GOOD IDEA. Without them you fall flat on your face as soon as you try to walk.
Personal flying log book
35 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded:
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder’s licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable,
including:
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the rotors are next stopped.
(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall be recorded in the log book, including:
(a) the date of the test or examination;
(b) the type of simulator;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and
(d) the nature of the test or examination.
35 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded:
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder’s licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable,
including:
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
(3) For the purposes of this article, a helicopter shall be deemed to be in flight from the moment the helicopter first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the rotors are next stopped.
(4) Particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in a flight simulator shall be recorded in the log book, including:
(a) the date of the test or examination;
(b) the type of simulator;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted; and
(d) the nature of the test or examination.
Final thought, split legs are very definitely a GOOD IDEA. Without them you fall flat on your face as soon as you try to walk.
