Instrument IFR route (off airway)
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Instrument IFR route (off airway)
Hi,
Is it possible to fly under IFR to airports not serviced by navaids or situated on or nearby airways? For example, could we take off in VFR from our private strip and fly to another private strip when a proportion of the flight will be in IMC? If so, how would this be filed with ATC - would we just put in a direct route or would we need to plan to use the airways system. If the airways system takes us on an inefficient route can we mix and match those portions that would be useful and are we allowed to "create" our own waypoints (GPS or VOR/DME) and use these in the plan?
I have not flown for years and believe it or not I have an FAA IR and should be able to answer all these questions myself but I'm ashamed to say I can't. Perhaps you guys would be obliging as I'm on a mission to retrain and get back into the air!
Many thanks
Is it possible to fly under IFR to airports not serviced by navaids or situated on or nearby airways? For example, could we take off in VFR from our private strip and fly to another private strip when a proportion of the flight will be in IMC? If so, how would this be filed with ATC - would we just put in a direct route or would we need to plan to use the airways system. If the airways system takes us on an inefficient route can we mix and match those portions that would be useful and are we allowed to "create" our own waypoints (GPS or VOR/DME) and use these in the plan?
I have not flown for years and believe it or not I have an FAA IR and should be able to answer all these questions myself but I'm ashamed to say I can't. Perhaps you guys would be obliging as I'm on a mission to retrain and get back into the air!
Many thanks
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If you are asking internationally, it is a good question...
The answer is country dependent.
In the UK, and most of Europe, you can file an "I" flight plan to/from an airport with no instrument approach (IAP).
In some countries (I think Spain is one but I can't remember) you would have to file a "Y" flight plan if you are going to one of their non-IAP airports, if you want Eurocontrol to accept the flight plan (and you cannot fly unless they accept it).
The actual process for going to such an airfield would be according to how much ATC down there give a damn. With a Y plan you are supposed to formally cancel IFR and proceed VFR.
In practice, flying internationally, the problem does not arise much because much of the time you need Customs, and most Customs airports have an IAP.
However taking this
in a strictly UK context, nobody cares because UK allows IFR in Class G non-radio, so you don't need to file anything. The change VFR to IFR (some cloud) to VFR is purely inside your head.
The answer is country dependent.
In the UK, and most of Europe, you can file an "I" flight plan to/from an airport with no instrument approach (IAP).
In some countries (I think Spain is one but I can't remember) you would have to file a "Y" flight plan if you are going to one of their non-IAP airports, if you want Eurocontrol to accept the flight plan (and you cannot fly unless they accept it).
The actual process for going to such an airfield would be according to how much ATC down there give a damn. With a Y plan you are supposed to formally cancel IFR and proceed VFR.
In practice, flying internationally, the problem does not arise much because much of the time you need Customs, and most Customs airports have an IAP.
However taking this
For example, could we take off in VFR from our private strip and fly to another private strip when a proportion of the flight will be in IMC?
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Sorry , I meant to say that you cannot mix and match any way you like to get into the system you will need to establish the entry and exit point that are compliant with the IFR system , ie you cannot enter the IFR system from any point there are pre defined entry points . Saying that, the flight plan is just to get you in the system once in flight the ATC will then route you in a combination of either to suite their traffice flow and or to give you the shortest route.
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you cannot enter the IFR system from any point there are pre defined entry points
Departing a "farm strip" (Class G), for an international or other Eurocontrol IFR flight, one files the flight plan, gets airborne, calls up the regional FIS unit (London Information usually) and they give you a provisional airways clearance (which, them being non-radar etc, will be a squawk and the IFR controlling authority frequency - usually London Control). Then you change to London Control and they will clear you to enter CAS in the climb on a track to some waypoint which they will give you. This could be anywhere where it suits them.
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Here's one UK based scenario.
An aircraft takes off from private land into Class G airspace. No flight plan required, no R/T call to be made.
The aircraft continues under IFR and IMC, remaining in class G towards its destination airfield. At some point near the airfield it will enter controlled airspace. The pilot calls the appropriate ATC unit in advance, obtains an IFR clearance to enter the airspace and is given direct routing to the approach.
What ATC service, if any, the pilot obtains en route is up to the individual.
All perfectly legal, although it might not always work in practice. Other things like destination PPR and obtaining a slot might be needed.
An aircraft takes off from private land into Class G airspace. No flight plan required, no R/T call to be made.
The aircraft continues under IFR and IMC, remaining in class G towards its destination airfield. At some point near the airfield it will enter controlled airspace. The pilot calls the appropriate ATC unit in advance, obtains an IFR clearance to enter the airspace and is given direct routing to the approach.
What ATC service, if any, the pilot obtains en route is up to the individual.
All perfectly legal, although it might not always work in practice. Other things like destination PPR and obtaining a slot might be needed.
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One might not get clearance to enter CAS - VFR or IFR.
One does potentially need PPR - VFR or IFR.
Slots? They are issued by Eurocontrol. If one say departed a farm strip and flew to Bournemouth (Class D) would they issue a slot? I have never come across that. The flight never went anywhere near Eurocontrol. Bournemouth is PPR (and so are most UK airports of that type) and the PPR is your permission to go there. Of course ATC could refuse but that would be very rare.
If OTOH one departed from a strip, and tried to get an IFR clearance into Class A (UK), that is different. IME one is unlikely to get it unless a flight plan has been filed and - unlike Class D - this cannot be done with a radio call. And if you file an IFR flight plan, airways levels, then Eurocontrol might issue a slot and quite often do.
One does potentially need PPR - VFR or IFR.
Slots? They are issued by Eurocontrol. If one say departed a farm strip and flew to Bournemouth (Class D) would they issue a slot? I have never come across that. The flight never went anywhere near Eurocontrol. Bournemouth is PPR (and so are most UK airports of that type) and the PPR is your permission to go there. Of course ATC could refuse but that would be very rare.
If OTOH one departed from a strip, and tried to get an IFR clearance into Class A (UK), that is different. IME one is unlikely to get it unless a flight plan has been filed and - unlike Class D - this cannot be done with a radio call. And if you file an IFR flight plan, airways levels, then Eurocontrol might issue a slot and quite often do.
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Within several European countries you can file and fly 'informal IFR' which allows pretty much arbitrary routes from a-b (and in the UK you don't generally file any flightplan for these), this almost never work across FIR boarders - you really need to be 'in the system' which means something the Eurocontrol computer considers within its remit. It is only these plans (to my knowledge) that are included in flow control planning and hence potentially subject to departure slots.
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This is something I day very frequently. I operate from a private strip well outside CAS. One example is that I fly on a very regular basis to the CI. I file an IFR flight plan with a ZZZZ for departure and then airways to the CI. London info are my first call when airborne and they negotiate my airways join which is generally at the point I defined in my flight plan but can be as IO540 pointed out pretty much anywhere that please ATC.
On the way back I do the same thing and am asked by ATC where I intend to leave CAS. There is an airways intersection at FL100 almost straight above the field EBOTO and tell them that I will be leaving by descent in this direction. It then gives me a chance on a weekday to get a Radar service from my local RAF unit who when required will give me a cloud break for a scud run back to base or will accept me as a diversion if I am unable to get in (only needed once in the last 5 years).
I tend to do virtually all of my IFR flying in the airways even when the routing looks longer at first planning as I like to try and get above the weather and a lot of the time this is invariably in CAS altitudes. It is also a lot easier when single pilot IFR when you are on a radar service and the separation is provided for you, transits don't have to be negotiated etc. So even when flying long distance between uncontrolled fields I will use the airways. When flying over seas pretty much all of my flying is done IFR as it makes life so much easier and you never run the risk of busting CAS!!!
On the way back I do the same thing and am asked by ATC where I intend to leave CAS. There is an airways intersection at FL100 almost straight above the field EBOTO and tell them that I will be leaving by descent in this direction. It then gives me a chance on a weekday to get a Radar service from my local RAF unit who when required will give me a cloud break for a scud run back to base or will accept me as a diversion if I am unable to get in (only needed once in the last 5 years).
I tend to do virtually all of my IFR flying in the airways even when the routing looks longer at first planning as I like to try and get above the weather and a lot of the time this is invariably in CAS altitudes. It is also a lot easier when single pilot IFR when you are on a radar service and the separation is provided for you, transits don't have to be negotiated etc. So even when flying long distance between uncontrolled fields I will use the airways. When flying over seas pretty much all of my flying is done IFR as it makes life so much easier and you never run the risk of busting CAS!!!
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The original poster said "off airway".
IO540, Re class A, it can be done with a radio call and no written FP provided a PPR is requested in advance by phone. An SVFR clearance is the expected way to join (pilot's discretion to safely and legally break cloud) but on a few occasions where the weather was deemed on arrival to be below limits for SVFR I have been vectored for an ILS.
Hardly ever occurs in my experience, but I do always have an alternate route in mind.
IO540, Re class A, it can be done with a radio call and no written FP provided a PPR is requested in advance by phone. An SVFR clearance is the expected way to join (pilot's discretion to safely and legally break cloud) but on a few occasions where the weather was deemed on arrival to be below limits for SVFR I have been vectored for an ILS.
One might not get clearance to enter CAS - VFR or IFR.
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The original poster said "off airway".
If the airways system takes us on an inefficient route can we mix and match those portions that would be useful and are we allowed to "create" our own waypoints (GPS or VOR/DME) and use these in the plan?
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Instrument IFR route (off airway)
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Re class A, it can be done with a radio call and no written FP provided a PPR is requested in advance by phone.
What would be news to me would be a pop-up clearance (no Eurocontrol flight plan filed) into Class A, followed by a sizeable enroute flight from say the UK to say Italy, or even s. coast to Scotland.
This topic has come up on various forums and it always makes a lot of heat with UK ATCOs being unhappy about it, but from private ATCO comments it appears that UK ATC has no practical way to generate an IFR flight plan on the fly. Other n. European countries can do it, and the USA does it routinely. I once flew from Split (Croatia) to the UK and about halfway it became apparent that my FP had vanished from the system. Somewhere between Switzerland and France they generated a new one, with very little fuss, all while I was flying along in roughly the right direction at FL140... But on the few occassions I have tried a pop-up clearance into UK Class A (from a non-FP VFR flight, or even a flight-planned IFR flight which was filed below CAS) I was never successful and on the last occassion I had Manchester quite deliberately frustrate me. However, the ability to do this may vary around the UK.
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IO540,
Every time I have flown into LHR (been doing so quite a few times in the last 9 years) I have been given an arrival slot time when making the PPR. On one occasion we were warned by the handling agent that our company had been "awarded" a "slot time violation", for reasons outside our control.
Every time I have flown into LHR (been doing so quite a few times in the last 9 years) I have been given an arrival slot time when making the PPR. On one occasion we were warned by the handling agent that our company had been "awarded" a "slot time violation", for reasons outside our control.
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However, you later mention SVFR which is possible only if the Class A reaches the ground e.g. Heathrow, Jersey, etc. That I don't doubt, otherwise nobody could fly to Jersey etc without an IR
Not sure what you mean by this - I regularly get SVFR in class D airspace. Basically allows non IFR access to CAS (of any type) below normal VFR weather limits or at night. Is it different between fixed wing and helicopters?
Not sure what you mean by this .....
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The detail discussion on SVFR is documented in 'all good airlaw books' (and the ANO). For real life fixed wing IFR operations, PPLIR has a good book available, back issues of a newsletter and an active forum (PPL/IR Europe).
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Basically allows non IFR access to CAS (of any type) below normal VFR weather limits or at night. Is it different between fixed wing and helicopters?
I agree it is arse about face, in the USA SVFR can be used in weather down to 1 statute mile (less for helicopters).
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Hi,
Is it possible to fly under IFR to airports not serviced by navaids or situated on or nearby airways? For example, could we take off in VFR from our private strip and fly to another private strip when a proportion of the flight will be in IMC? If so, how would this be filed with ATC - would we just put in a direct route or would we need to plan to use the airways system. If the airways system takes us on an inefficient route can we mix and match those portions that would be useful and are we allowed to "create" our own waypoints (GPS or VOR/DME) and use these in the plan?
I have not flown for years and believe it or not I have an FAA IR and should be able to answer all these questions myself but I'm ashamed to say I can't. Perhaps you guys would be obliging as I'm on a mission to retrain and get back into the air!
Many thanks
Is it possible to fly under IFR to airports not serviced by navaids or situated on or nearby airways? For example, could we take off in VFR from our private strip and fly to another private strip when a proportion of the flight will be in IMC? If so, how would this be filed with ATC - would we just put in a direct route or would we need to plan to use the airways system. If the airways system takes us on an inefficient route can we mix and match those portions that would be useful and are we allowed to "create" our own waypoints (GPS or VOR/DME) and use these in the plan?
I have not flown for years and believe it or not I have an FAA IR and should be able to answer all these questions myself but I'm ashamed to say I can't. Perhaps you guys would be obliging as I'm on a mission to retrain and get back into the air!
Many thanks
Now depending on what kind of airpace you will be flying will make a difference here. You can legally fly in IMC in class G airspace (off route), but you could also be flying off route in class E airspace (in FL ussually starts at 1200ft agl). So in order to conduct your IFR flight in IMC you would have to dodge all the airways by flying through class G airspace. (I dont quite remember if you need to file a flight plan for this kind of flight as ATC has no authorithy nor responsibility over you in class G airspace).
If you want to stay away from the airway system, you could file a direct IFR flightplan, even if VFR on the grass strip. After takeoff stablish contact with appropriate atc facility and get your clearence. Here is where they might not want you flying direct (going across airways), and may issue you an airway based route. Then you can simply terminate your IFR flight whenever you want as long as you are above VFR wx minimums and not in class A airspace.
You have some decent information about this on the AIM 5-1-8