Owned or Hire

[waspsad]

I am at a crossroads with regards to purchasing a share in an aircraft or just hiring off a club when i got my ppl. I was just wondering what the majority of ppl holders do? And the pros and cons of each one.

Many thanks

[Gertrude the Wombat]

In my case the con is that if I buy plane my wife has promised to buy a horse. I reckon we're better off both renting.

[B2N2]

If it flies, floats or (the other thing) you're better of renting then owning

Being serious, it really depends on what you're looking for and how much flying you intend to do over the coarse of several years.
Everybody that buys an aircraft (or a share) flies a lot in the first year, less in the 2nd, even less in the 3rd year and so on.
Now the flying hours really become expensive since fixed cost+ variable cost/ hrs makes the bill.

[avonflyer]

it all depends

on how much you want to spend (sorry I meant fly - but they are mutually linked). For me, with the amount I fly, it just about works out less costly to hire.

There is also a line of thought that says that renting MAY lead to less potential hassle. The planes may not be so tidy BUT, when you are done, you walk away and dont have to worry about the internal group politics, maintenance or potential for someone bending your share of the metal..

However, the minute you want to regularly fly more than 2 or 3 hours a month, over longer distances and perhaps with overnight stop overs, it appears the equation changes radically. Renting does not make sense.

So I come back to, how much do you want to spend ?

[flybymike]

The first time you get a bill for a new engine you will see the benefits of hiring....

[BeechNut]

ow the flying hours really become expensive since fixed cost+ variable cost/ hrs makes the bill.

True but the total cost does go down in relation to how much you fly. The variable costs (fuel, oil) are in direct proportion to hours flown. The fixed ones aren't of course so the cost per hour goes up, but the total per year goes down. I can fly 50 hours and spend $3000 per year on fuel, or fly 25 and spend $1500, and when you fly less the looming engine overhaul is further out.

So you have to factor in budget, and there's the emotional factor of owning instead of hiring. Hiring can be a PITA especially when there is little in the way of local choice and the local school runs like the monopoly he is. I have to drive about an hour to find another airfield and place to hire.

You may be able to rent block time from a local aircraft owner though. And if you own, it's a way of sharing the costs.

Personally, I own for the reason above: the choice of local rentals. It's expensive, but then what hobby for grown men (and some grown women!) isn't? From what I hear, sailing, motorbikes, sports cars, snowmobiles, and, umm, Tiger Woods' hobby (sorry couldn't resist ), they all add up and except for flying 20 y.o. spam can like I do, their toys tend to depreciate in value over time, some (bikes, cars) like a stone actually.

I've seen guys spend $10k p.a. plus on things like snowmobiles or sailing. I spend significantly less than that per year on my Sundowner. When the price of fuel skyrocketed, I flew just as often, but shorter flights

And I get to decide when to fly. No more showing up for a booking and being told "oh, sorry, we sent a guy out on a solo x-country, he has a flight test coming up and the weather was ideal for it...". Yes it did happen. Frequently.

Beech

[neilgeddes]

Seems to me there are more planes to fly than pilots to fly them.

At my clubs at Redhill and Biggin there's generally good rental availability, especially early in the week, and you can book just a day or two ahead. Then, if you find something not quite right with one plane during your preflight check chances are you can take another. If you're prepared to put down some money with your club (and that's been discussed to death elsewhere here) rental prices can be keen.

[Justiciar]

Seems to me there are more planes to fly than pilots to fly them

That is certainly true at the moment. In my area at Norwich there is a very nice Warrior (which I am renewing my IMCR on), a Robin (the aerobatic one) and a C172 which spend most of their time sitting about waiting to be flown.

Be wary of figures quoted from across the pond. They are lucking in the cost of flying, but over here the figures are vastly different. Having owned and had shares in a number of aircraft I would say that in pure money terms renting is cheapest unless you are flying a lot of hours.

Of course, there are other reasons to own outright or in a group. Avaliability, the choice of aircraft and control are tha major ones. Hiring something bigger and faster than a C172 or PA28 180 is more difficult due to availability and currency requirements. A good compromise is a non equity group if you can find one. There are a few about - there is one in North Norfolk flying a C172. My own group owned Chipmunk is non equity, but this does not protect you from the impact of serious costs - we are about to write some very large cheques for a partial engine rebuild

The other point to consider is that if you own a particular machine you feel obliged to fly it to the exclusion of everything else. Hiring gives you more money potentially to spend (it may not feel that way when the plastic is swiped but it is true) and you can take the opportunity of flying different types. I reckon that for a typical spam can you would not break even under 40 hours per year, possibly more. If you have a budget figure in mind then within that you could do some aeros, tailwheel, floats etc.

If you are determined to buy then consider Permit aircraft. An acquaintance of mine ownes a Rallye which is on a C of A. He is a licensed engineer and does all his own work. Even he finds a C of A aircraft too expensive to operate. They really are the preserve of groups and flying clubs and schools now. With permit you can go from an old Aronca or Cub (not the later ones, which are on C of A) up to one of the modern, cheap to run but expensive to buy kit aircraft like the Sport Cruiser or Pioneer.

[Rod1]

The economics;

If you get a share in a permit aircraft you are looking at typicaly;

1/5 Jodel £3000
£35 per month
£35 per hour

Small risk you will have to pay something extra if the engine fails, but this would mostly be covered by the engine fund if the group is well set up. You are likely to get £3000 for the share when you sell. There are many more similar comparisons but without more info it is hard to quote the right one for you.

Compare the above with the cost of a 152, and decide how many hours you plan to fly.

The practicality;

Main advantage of a share (or your own machine) is availability. You can usually take a group aircraft away for a week a year and it will be normal to take it away for a day at a time. This will allow you to get more from your flying, and you will do more hours. I was involved in several groups from 1991 to 2006, and averaged over 50 hours a year. I could not have afforded to fly that much if I had rented. In that time I also never had to pay “extra” to fix a fault. I now run my own machine, on a Permit.

Rod1

[hatzflyer]

Some people treat aircraft like women, thats why they are ususally reffered to as "she".

I suppose there are various similarities, they both cost a fortune, give you good times, drive you mad, wish you could do without them but love them ,etc.etc.

Some guys say its cheaper to buy them when you need them, that way you get to experience more variety, can walk away when you like, have no ties.

Others rush headlong into a marriage, only to divorce quite soon and pick up a newer model.

The lucky ones find a soul mate and have a life long marriage to a dependable ,relaible , easy to get on with partner that they know everthing about, allways there when you need them, no skeletons in the cupboard.

SO..how do you like your women?

[Justiciar]

Some wear you out trying to get them started then wonder why you start looking at a newer model

The lucky ones find a soul mate and have a life long marriage to a dependable ,relaible , easy to get on with partner that they know everthing about, allways there when you need them, no skeletons in the cupboard.

But with some, no matter how much you spend on them and how much you think you know them they still let you down at the wrong moment

[hatzflyer]

Especially if you don't throw the right switches !

[englishal]

If I rented in the UK I would have stopped flying here by now.

Because I own, I can take the plane when I want near enough, I can go away for as long as I want, within reason, and I can fly for as long or short as I want. I can alsogo when I feel like it, and don't usually have to worry about coming back late.

For me it is a no-brainer. I own in the UK then go to the USA several times a year and rent something worth 1/2 million $ and enjoy that too.

[AndyGB]

I was like Englishal when I first got my licence, however I did actually stop flying.

When I passed I could only really afford an hour a month and as a result of cancellations etc usually spent part of that hour doing a club currency check. As you can imagine the lure of doing that quickly palled and I decided to take a break, letting my rating lapse.

After 4 years and once finances improved I bought a share in a permit to fly Auster for £3000. This costs me £55 a month and £45 an hour, so the first hour I fly every month isn't that much cheaper than renting. However the second and third hours are less than half the price. Obviously with a CoA aircraft the costs will be higher in order to cover the maintenance costs that a permit aircraft avoids, however it will (probably) be chaeaper than hiring.

To give you an example how this allows you to fly more, I have the aircraft booked for a couple of hours this weekend in order to take my daughter for a flight. If I was to hire this would cost me over £200, which would certainly make me think twice. However £90 isn't such a hit. I pay the standing charge by DD and consider it to be the same as a utility bill, so don't really notice it.

However as others have said, the real benefit you get from owning, be it solely or as part of a group is increased utility. If I want to take the aircraft away for the weekend I can without having to pay for a minimum number of hours, even if I don't fly them. I can just turn up at the airfield and (more than likely) be able to take her up for an hour or two without having to pre-book days in advance. Also, because the aircraft isn't used for training I am not going to turn up to find that it is late back and but that somebody else has it booked immediately after me and so my slot gets squeezed down to 40 minutes from an hour.

Andy

[Arclite01]

Good posts from AndyGB and Justiciar

right on the money.

Arc

[Justiciar]

Rod1 very well summarises the ideal arrangement. A jodel is an old aircraft now but by all accounts a lovely mark (I have not had the pleasure). I did however have a share in a cub which cost a similar amount. There is always the risk of a big hit with an engine replacement but that is a risk to balance up - check any group accounts regarding an engine fund.

[IO540]

The first time you get a bill for a new engine you will see the benefits of hiring....

I would turn that around by saying that if you are renting, the engine will most likely be sent to the cheapest nastiest engine shop, whereas if it is your own you will use the opportunity to get it done by the most reputable engine shop (probably in the USA), so when you fly you know there won't be too many bolts loose

Buying a plane with a dodgy engine is an opportunity to knock him down by the cost of an engine rebuild. It's the most important bit of the plane (along with the wing bolts).

There is little comparion between hiring and owning. If you own, you get

- total access
- ability to do fly away trips (a huge value to a pilot)
- maintenance done to YOUR standards
- know that nobody else has bent it
etc

[Maoraigh1]

I've been flying regularly since 1987. All the guys who got their licenses at that time have either gone professional, got their own plane or a share in a plane, or disappeared from regular flying. I bought a share in a Jodel in 1990. I did 100 hours last year, at an overall cost of £56 per hour. I'm still in the same group.
If I'd done 20 hours, it would have averaged at £80 per hour.
10 hours would be £110 per hour.

[seymour beaver]

An important factor is the guys you fly with as being a share holder if you get on with group members you can each do various legs and get about with shared costs doing varied trips.If you hire its possible you may just do the same old local unless you go on arranged flying club trips.

[pa28r driver]

owning v renting

i own .......... i love .............i skint

as per the previous replies owning has a definate bonus regarding go when where for how long and with whom u like,however you bend it .....you mend it !!!
rental,well if u break it simply give em the keys back and say sorry (with a somewhat sickly grin )
i think ive worked out the break even point for myself as flying less than 40 hours per year........rent it.
Any more than that then ownership appears to be better.
and anyway i can simply sit out at the airfield...tea in one hand ...ciggie in the other and think ......that babys mine !!!
regards to all
pete