Flying over Lake District

[Mark.Watson]

Hello all,

A question to all out there who fly over the Lake District regular.
Which ATC/FIS unit do you speak to when flying over the Lake District generally?

Over the past few months I have been told to call Scottish Info on 119.875 but I have found there comms quite weak and poor.

I have noticed though that London Info seem to be much clearer and stronger on 125.475 over the Cumbria area so do they work this area more than Scottish?

Thanks in advance!
Cheers
Mark

[BHenderson]

I have used Scottish as far down as Lancaster, however South of Carlisle reception can be sketchy. Carlisle will tend to pass traffic to Scottish regardless. London do seem to be the better option.

[maxred]

DCS

Scottish generally from Deancross heading north. I find that I lose Scottish at Barrow if heading south but by that time I am generally talking to someone else - Blackpool, Wharton at al.

[GearDownFlaps]

If you are at the southern end of the lakes , Bpool radar 119.950 or warton radar 129.525 will provide you with a service quite adequately. they are normally good up to about 30-35 miles north of the respective fields . Dependant on your height.
Give them a call

[fisbangwollop]

In general we at "Scottish info" are handed traffic north bound over the Lakes by either Blackpool or Warton round about Barrow . Comms from there should be OK as we have a TX/RX site on Lowther hill near Dumfries. For south bound traffic we always pre note either Blackpool or Warton of your details and transfer between Sellafield and Barrow.

[Barshifter]

Some good advice has already been given on here.

Heres my take.

Flying the flexwing,I have great problems in raising Scottish.Tend to stick to Carlisle in and around the Lakes.If its the fast jets your concerned about,you will struggle to get much info unless of course you are in two way with say Warton(South Lakes).Fly high and keep a good lookout.Personally I dont go much below 2000ft.Most of the jet flyers will give you a wing wobble(to indicate theyve seen you) as they pass.Ocasionally they will call up Carlisle as they pass between the city and their zone.If you can sqwawk,even better.Spadeadam are usually watching out if your in the North East of Cumbria.Some of the best flying to be had up here enjoy!!

[Mark.Watson]

ok guys thanks very much.
I cannot see anything on the AIP/NATS AIS website that says Scottish cover the Lake district. It only says someting about Scottish FIR north of North 55 deg and London FIR south of that line.

London Information did tell me though that they get good coverage of Cumbria as they have transmitters at Great Dun Fell near Penrith and Snaefell on the IOM. Why don't Scottish have a transmitter on either of those hills and I am sure they will be able to get a better R/T coverage in the Lakes area?

Carlisle usually do tell me to call Scottish on 119.875 however I find there comms over lakes at approx 2500 feet quite weak.

Mark

[fisbangwollop]

The Scottish FIR Sector sector covers airspace from the Lakes to the Moray firth so the rest of our transmitters are further north. London have coverage over the Lakes as technically it is their airspace but to be honest most folk will not talk to them as they are far too busy with traffic further south...I.E crossing the English Channel!! Only if you are really low and down below the summit heights is the coverage poor but in general I rarely lose contact with traffic above 2000ft. In general as I said before we have an unofficial agreement that Blackpool and Warton will hand traffic to Scottish Info over the south Lakes for north bound traffic and we do the same to them with traffic heading south.

[Mark.Watson]

ok FISbangwollop I will continue to call you when transiting the Lake District North and South.
Carlisle normally do tell me when heading south out of there area to call your good selves passing either Penrith or Keswick so I will continue to do that in the future.

To be honest overall I think you guys at Scottish Info give a much better service than London info that’s for sure.

I tend to find that London can't give much of a service really as most of the time there frequency is very congested!

I do think though that it would be much better if Scottish used a radio site such as Great Dun Fell or somewhere down near Lakes as it would encourage pilots even more to use 119.875 as comms would be much clearer around here.

Just a suggestion!
keep up the good work.

[fisbangwollop]

I have responded to your email also with my NATS hat on!! At the end of the day in the open FIR and class "G" airspace the choice is yours who you speak to if anyone at all.....One thing for sure if you call Scottish you will be assured of a good service despite the limitations of R/T coverage below 2000ft over the Lakes.

[A.Agincourt]

Fiz - your service is exemplary irrespective of the quality of communication. I speak to you at least a dozen times every other week and have used the service since 1975. Absolutely no complaint whatsoever.......any time. So now go and tickle your chin and feel bemused.

Best Wishes

[and it is still a ????]

[fisbangwollop]

Agincourt...tickled chin so now bemused....thanks for your kind comments your cheque is in the post..

[Halfbaked_Boy]

If towards the North East, Durham Radar, Leeming Zone etc are very helpful

[2high2fastagain]

My experience

Be careful as you head south from Carlisle. When I've been up there (for a quite stunning all-day breakfast I should add), Carlisle suggested Scottish Info when I left the circuit. This was all fine until I got to Shap, where I lost them (flying at about 3000' AMSL). Calling London and letting them know I'd lost Scottish was the next step, plus a mental note where to set the boundary between the two next time. Both provide great service is my experience.

Oh, and by the way. I don't think Warton ATCwere operating at the weekend when I was flying...

[Halfbaked_Boy]

2high2fastagain,

Strange... perhaps it was the particular ATCer at Carlisle?

I was there yesterday, and flying South East our chappie asked me to report range 16 nm from Carlisle at which point he passed me a squawk and freq for Durham, was very handy!

I guess it depends who you get on the day though, and more importantly, how busy they are.

[fisbangwollop]

Halfbaked.....if flying SE if you called me initially at "Scottish" I to would pass your details to Durham then get you to QSY once a little closer and before you lost contact with me....probably just to the south of Appleby..

[BoeingMEL]

I'm with Agincourt..

Retired now but used Scottish many times from 80-02..(usually G-OMET and G-BCKM) always courteous, helpful and 100% professional. I miss those days..thanks guys (and girls of course!) bm

[Mark.Watson]

2high2fastagain,

Yes that was the similar area where I noticed weak and broken transmissions from Scottish Information too.

Let’s hope NATS/Scottish Radio engineers finally realise that people are experiencing comms problems over the Lakes and they put a transmitter on Great Dun fell or somewhere closer than the Lowther Hill.

Scottish Info gives a brilliant service mind and very friendly guys I must add too!


Mark

[10W]

Let’s hope NATS/Scottish Radio engineers finally realise that people are experiencing comms problems over the Lakes and they put a transmitter on Great Dun fell or somewhere closer than the Lowther Hill.

Probably unlikely as, strictly speaking, the Scottish area of responsibility ends at 55 North. The bean counters would need justification, or someone to pay for it.

Now, with the new ATC Centre at Prestwick up and running, plus Manchester ATC centre moving up there in late January, it might be possible for the new Centre to make a case for increasing their area of interest further South on an official basis. If that happened, then appropriate RT coverage would have to be provided.

[bad bear]

ah, the lake district. It is so beautiful and remote, I love it. In terms of who to speak to, why speak to anyone? just enjoy the views and turn the radio off. In terms of trafic density it is really quite low. A few microlight haveing fun on the lighter wind days, the odd autogyro and 20 or so gliders somewhere on the ridges, enjoying the thermals and convergences up to cloud base or up at FL195 in the spectacular wave. Its nice to see the odd Tuccano or pointy thing whizzing about. I guess the air ambulance talks to someone? Just enjoy in peace and quiet.
b b