About to start gliding lessons
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 200
Likes: 5
From: London, UK
Nobody has mentioned the rather essential sunglasses 
even in the depths of winter you'll need a pair, especially as the sun starts getting lower earlier in the day.
Keep a couple of pairs in the bag and get a neck strap so you can hang them around your neck, preferably not too expensive ones as you're guaranteed to leave them in the glider / bus / under a buggy wheel etc etc.
Winter gliding fashion: Airfields are muddy, cold, wet, windy places in winter! Thick jacket, fleece jumper, thermal t-shirt and leggings and outdoor trousers, long/thick socks and boots. I swap the thick jacket for a thin windproof one when flying, and if it's not too muddy, boots for trainers (but remember you have to walk to the glider, and when you bring it back). Warm hat and gloves essential, waterproof if snowy/dewy. You will have to kneel on the grass / pick up muddy ropes. I don't wear gloves in the cockpit, but if you do, wear thin ones.
What gliders does your club have? I find the ASK-13 has room in the cockpit for big boots, as long as they don't interfere with your control, but scrape mud off first (ask the instructor to do a loop to show you why). It's a bit tighter in the ASK-21 though, your club won't be happy if you get mud all over the seats.
Gliders aren't very well sealed, and in K13s it seems that cold air blows straight up your legs, so hope the fashion police aren't about and tuck those trousers into your socks!
Don't get too bulky with clothing when you're in the cockpit, you'll want to move freely - but remember when you land you'll be walking the glider back to the launch point, could be a 5 minute walk and if it's bitterly cold you'll wish you had that extra fleece/windproof jacket!
Post again in Spring for the Summer collection
Good luck!
even in the depths of winter you'll need a pair, especially as the sun starts getting lower earlier in the day.Keep a couple of pairs in the bag and get a neck strap so you can hang them around your neck, preferably not too expensive ones as you're guaranteed to leave them in the glider / bus / under a buggy wheel etc etc.
Winter gliding fashion: Airfields are muddy, cold, wet, windy places in winter! Thick jacket, fleece jumper, thermal t-shirt and leggings and outdoor trousers, long/thick socks and boots. I swap the thick jacket for a thin windproof one when flying, and if it's not too muddy, boots for trainers (but remember you have to walk to the glider, and when you bring it back). Warm hat and gloves essential, waterproof if snowy/dewy. You will have to kneel on the grass / pick up muddy ropes. I don't wear gloves in the cockpit, but if you do, wear thin ones.
What gliders does your club have? I find the ASK-13 has room in the cockpit for big boots, as long as they don't interfere with your control, but scrape mud off first (ask the instructor to do a loop to show you why). It's a bit tighter in the ASK-21 though, your club won't be happy if you get mud all over the seats.
Gliders aren't very well sealed, and in K13s it seems that cold air blows straight up your legs, so hope the fashion police aren't about and tuck those trousers into your socks!
Don't get too bulky with clothing when you're in the cockpit, you'll want to move freely - but remember when you land you'll be walking the glider back to the launch point, could be a 5 minute walk and if it's bitterly cold you'll wish you had that extra fleece/windproof jacket!
Post again in Spring for the Summer collection
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Rochdale
Thanks again for all these tip folks!
I think the club have 2 two seat gliders, grob twin 2s?
Staffordshire Gliding Club - Fleet
I think the club have 2 two seat gliders, grob twin 2s?
Staffordshire Gliding Club - Fleet
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 63
From: UK
<snip>
What gliders does your club have? I find the ASK-13 has room in the cockpit for big boots, as long as they don't interfere with your control, but scrape mud off first (ask the instructor to do a loop to show you why). It's a bit tighter in the ASK-21 though, your club won't be happy if you get mud all over the seats.
<snip>
What gliders does your club have? I find the ASK-13 has room in the cockpit for big boots, as long as they don't interfere with your control, but scrape mud off first (ask the instructor to do a loop to show you why). It's a bit tighter in the ASK-21 though, your club won't be happy if you get mud all over the seats.
<snip>
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Was under the impression a loop was a positive-G manouver all the way round
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 434
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From: UK
Bit of thread creep I know but....If you need to push negative at the top of a loop...it ain't a loop! (unless you're pushing into a pretty serious headwind).
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Rochdale
Well, I've been down to the Gliding club today to have a look at what goes on. There were about a dozen members there and they all made me and the kids feel very welcome. We went down to the launch point to watch the gliders taking off, and also what goes on in between. There was a good sense of teamwork with each of the members helping to launch and recover the gliders as well as working the radio and driving the winch.
I didnt realise how steep the climb is for winch launches, it looks really good! Also saw a couple of motor gliders (privately owned) doing circuits as well.
I'm getting excited now, cant wait for January...
I didnt realise how steep the climb is for winch launches, it looks really good! Also saw a couple of motor gliders (privately owned) doing circuits as well.
I'm getting excited now, cant wait for January...
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: UK
Well, I've been down to the Gliding club today to have a look at what goes on. There were about a dozen members there and they all made me and the kids feel very welcome.
Don't forget that "although the minimum age for solo flying is 16, younger members can still learn before this age". Ask the CFI about when they can have their first trial lesson and when they can seriously start learning. It helps if they can see out and can reach the rudder pedals (my 4' 11" daughter uses several cushions 
I didnt realise how steep the climb is for winch launches, it looks really good!
The stronger the wind, the steeper the climb. My daughter thought aerotow was OK, but a single winch launch hooked her! I'm getting excited now, cant wait for January...
Have fun. When (not if you feel you are making negative progress, talk to other members - they'll say "Hmmm. Yes. I remember that stage".
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 63
From: UK
Thankfully we have professional drivers at my club - the only real launch failure I've had was at another club with a member driving the winch. It was the scary sort we never practise... 
However the rest sounds just as it should be, and it's January tomorrow.
However the rest sounds just as it should be, and it's January tomorrow.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 638
Likes: 18
From: South Oxfordshire
I will be taking my first glider flight in the new year too. I've flown a bit before (PA28s, Cessnas, a twin and more recently a Pitts - all under instruction). I'm looking forward to the new non-powered experience, and am curious as to whether aerotow or winch launches would be better value for money (I understand winch launches are cheaper). What are the pros/cons of each??
Cheers.
Cheers.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
I've never done an aerotow, only a winch launch (and hundreds of powered aircraft take-offs), but I think you can safely say that winch launches are a lot more exciting!
They're most likely cheaper too, in general, since you're only heaving the glider in the air, not the glider plus the tow aircraft. Less energy needed, less cost. Simple. And if the winch has a large number of spools (the one we used had six) the cycle time can be much shorter, allowing you to launch more gliders in less time.
Disadvantages of a winch vs. a tow: The height that you can obtain with a winch launch is essentially a certain percentage of the field length. Around the 50% mark I'd say - we flew from a 1000m field and obtained heights of around 500 meters, depending on the headwind. And the release point is always more or less above the location of the winch. With an aerotow you can obtain any altitude you want (although high = expensive) and the driver can drop you off right below that good-looking cumulus cloud.
Aerotows can also be used to retrieve aircraft after having landed "out".
They're most likely cheaper too, in general, since you're only heaving the glider in the air, not the glider plus the tow aircraft. Less energy needed, less cost. Simple. And if the winch has a large number of spools (the one we used had six) the cycle time can be much shorter, allowing you to launch more gliders in less time.
Disadvantages of a winch vs. a tow: The height that you can obtain with a winch launch is essentially a certain percentage of the field length. Around the 50% mark I'd say - we flew from a 1000m field and obtained heights of around 500 meters, depending on the headwind. And the release point is always more or less above the location of the winch. With an aerotow you can obtain any altitude you want (although high = expensive) and the driver can drop you off right below that good-looking cumulus cloud.
Aerotows can also be used to retrieve aircraft after having landed "out".
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 1
From: Hants, UK
I would also recommend something inspriational to read when the weather's been duff for a few weeks on the trot and solo seems a long way away. The first gliding book I read was 'On Being a Bird' by Philip Wills - a great book of gliding days gone by and adventure - I'd recommend this to you. I happened across my copy in a secondhand bookshop aged 14 but you should be able to find a copy online fairly cheaply (or perhaps borrow from the library).
Have fun!
Have fun!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 519
Likes: 16
From: Luton
Disadvantages of a winch vs. a tow: The height that you can obtain with a winch launch is essentially a certain percentage of the field length. Around the 50% mark I'd say -
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
I've once done a parapente intro day, where they used a winch as well. One of the techniques they used to gain additional height was a stepped launch, where you would be winch-launched as normal. But at the point where you would normally let go of the wire, they gave you slack so that you could turn around, fly the length of the field (and then some) back, turn around once more, and get winched in for some more height gain. This could go on essentially indefinitely (until the wire would run out), although after a while you needed to be really careful or otherwise the wire would get tangled in the barbed wire and the trees that separated the launch field from the surrounding fields.
Do they do this with gliders too? Or is this impossible due to the way the coupling mechanism is designed?
Do they do this with gliders too? Or is this impossible due to the way the coupling mechanism is designed?
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Wokingham, Berks
Do they do this with gliders too? Or is this impossible due to the way the coupling mechanism is designed?
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 212
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From: Suffolk
I'm looking forward to the new non-powered experience, and am curious as to whether aerotow or winch launches would be better value for money (I understand winch launches are cheaper). What are the pros/cons of each??
All this changes if you are winching on to a ridge - if the ridge is working, hours of flight are possible.
Once you can handle the aircraft, then winching is probably best for most of your flights. You need to learn circuits and landing in an aircraft without the option to go around, and the winch is most cost effective for that.
When you move on to spinning, you'll need to aerotow again.
However, your instructor will be best placed to advise you - when I was learning (which I did in the winter) I was discouraged from taking too many aerotows because they were not cost-effective for what I needed to learn. It's not just a matter of money, but also time. On the short winter days it's usually poor light which stops play, and a club can get in at least twice as many winch launches as aerotows per aircraft.
In conclusion, first couple of flights aerotow, then take the instructor's advice (which will probably be mainly to winch).