UK PPL Licence Renewal question

[martynj3]

Hi fellow Prune'rs,

I'm really confused. My Licence renewal letter from the lads at Gatwick warns me of the impending lapse of my JAR PPL(A) licence if I don't send money. Understandable.
Then the letter continues about converting said licence to JAR by sending more money and forms.
What am I missing here? Don't I already have a JAR licence? Why would they offer to convert?
Am I just mis-reading a form letter or there is something significant going on?

Thanks

- Martyn

[martynj3]

Solution....

Since I was up against a deadline to post something off, I called the Crew Licensing section at Gatwick. The helpful response was that many get confused by the form letter - the references to converting to JAR are not relevant.

Ok I was dumb, but not as dumb as I thought...

BTW, for those concerned by the aftermath of the U.K. postal strike, they are accepting fax'd forms on (44) 1293 573996

Issue closed

[Humaround]

I just got this letter, it's my first 5 year renewal of a PPL(A)

So CAA say that the 'conversion to JAR is not relevant'? Not relevant to what or whom?

Can anyone enlighten me as to what this is all about?

Apart from relieving me of £176 for a 'conversion' rather than only (sic) £70 for a straight renewal?

[martynj3]

Tortuous Text

Humaround,

Seems that the CAA are using a standard form letter for renewals to cover different circumstances. In my case (and I expect yours), the PPL(A) was at its first 5 year anniversary and is already JAR compliant. So you get the pay the lower fee to cover the next 5 years.

Who knows what level the fee will be at by then - is the revenue used to offset CAA's costs? Or just another flying tax?

[Humaround]

Thank you martynj3

Well, perhaps they need the money to employ staff to answer questions from confused aircrew who can't understand the daft letter they just sent....

Sheesh....

[kenparry]

Well, perhaps they need the money to employ staff to answer questions from confused aircrew who can't understand the daft letter they just sent....

Well, you may think you are joking, but you are not. Back in the 90s I was involved in getting an airline to be JAR-OPS 1 compliant, and JAR-FCL was also just coming along. JAR-FCL included the facility for national Authorities to issue lifetime licences at all levels (you may remember that the CAA PPL was then a lifetime licence) and I called the then head of FCL at Gatwick to ask about their intentions. No, he said, they would not be issuing lifetime licences, as they could not possibly afford the loss of revenue. Not only that, they went from 10-year ATPL & CPL to 5-year.

[martynj3]

Nothing as certain as....

Nothing as certain as death and (flying) taxes...

I've just renewed my Malaysian PPL - annual fee of 35Rm (a little over 6 squid). It would be interesting to see a league table of country-specific licence fees, my instinct is that the U.K. is one of the highest.

Maybe small beer compared with a wing load of fuel, but only the clients can hold government monopolies accountable.

[cct]

...as they could not possibly afford the loss of revenue.

76 squid for 5 years is not that excessive - they do need some revenue to manage licences

[englishal]

I've held an FAA Commercial certificate for about 7 years now. And let me see how much it has cost me to date, including initial issue fee....Oh yes I remember, $2 to add the English "rating"

[Whopity]

JAR-FCL included the facility for national Authorities to issue lifetime licences at all levels

That has never been in JAR-FCL since the first draft around 1993! The original JAA proposal was to reissue licenses annually as many European States did at the time. The UK CAA pushed for a 10 year period as that was the validity ofa UK professional licence at the time, the compromise was 5 years! Nothing to do with fees, it was a JAA committee decision.

Don't I already have a JAR licence?

This is quite a common question and many licence holders don't know. To tell the answer look at the first printed page. Page 1 of 4. If it says JOINT AVIATION AUTHORITIES immediately under the CAA logo then its a JAA licence; if not, its a UK licence; everything else is the same.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

everything else is the same

Everything else might be the same on the licence, but not in the rules! - real CAA licence holders get lower weather minima for one. (Not that I would go flying in weather like that of course.)