Is it possible to fly a Learjet on a PPL?

[Sam Rutherford]

big perhaps, but not too heavy, and not to far forward or aft!

[Dan Winterland]

I think hyperthetically, the answer is yes. As to the question as to how you would go about it if you really wanted to do it, you would have to ask the CAA. Because it has probably not been done before, they will be thinking on their feet which means the answer would be different depending on who you ask, and what sort of mood they are in depending on whether they have just had lunch/enjoyed their coffee/got laid last night.

If I was that person in the CAA and being asked, I would say the sensible and logical answer is that if someone did want to fly a Learjet on a PPL, they should show a level of knowlegde to ATPL standard (as that is the environment they are going to be flying in), hold a valid type rating (as the Learjets are individual types and not covered by a class rating) and hold an IR (as they will probably end up IFR and need controlling at some point). And this answer is assuming that I had lobster for lunch, followed by a nice cappucino with chocolate sprinkles and a great shag last night.

So, to do all this, you would have to take the ATPL exams, have to do an initial IR and then complete a course of training, and then take a Licence Proficiency Test on type with an IR included (for which you would have to have enough experience and ability to pass which means you would have no problem with the professional GFTs). If you think about it, is what you have to do to get an ATPL in the first place - and which probably explains why no-one has done it.



Theoretically possible, but there's no point.

[12Watt Tim]

Surely John Travolta is restricted SIC because it is a multi-crew aircraft and he doesn't hold an ATP.

Oh, and I suspect the HPA course is enough, probably no need for the ATPLs. However don't you need an IR (with its own exams) and MEP to start a multi-engine type rating?

[tmmorris]

So where have I picked up the piece of information which is somewhere in my brain that a PPL is limited to 5.7 tons and 12 seats?

Did I invent that (seems rather precise if so!) or have I confused it with another restriction? (is that for example the restriction for SEP/MEP above which a type rating is required?)

Tim

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by 12Watt Tim

Surely John Travolta is restricted SIC because it is a multi-crew aircraft and he doesn't hold an ATP.

Not likely as is other type ratings are for multicrew aircraft are not limited to SIC. In addition, there is to my knowledge no limit on the size of aircraft that can be operated under part 125 - and this part makes no mention of an ATPL requirement.

The OPs question will have different detail answers depending on the registration, but there are definitely private pilots in the States that operate as PIC 'learjet' sized turbine aircraft ( Harrison Ford is a PPL Citation Driver - PPL/ME/IR type rated that is)

[XXPLOD]

Interesting thread but anyone who had the cash to own/operate a LJ would surely go down the conventional route of distance learning ATPLs then do a ME CPL IR?

Trying to go the PPL route is almost more work and as said would raise eyebrows with insurance companies. You'd need the HPA groundschool which not that many places offer. Then the IR groundschool which is 7 exams. So the groundschool requirements are really only a few months less work than doing the ATPLs anyway.

Flying training - you'd need the MEP rating, then a fair whack of MEP time I'd suggest, then do a ME IR - 55 hours and then the TR.

All in all, the difference between a PPL qualified on the LJ and a fATPL holder is really only a chunk of groundschool and a 15 hour CPL course. Given the costs involved, small beer!

[mad_jock]

The only reason why I could see you would want to do it is if you couldn't hold a class 1.

I suspect there are a few owner drivers out there but they will all be old CAA licenses. As has been said these days under the JAR regs there is no point at all not bothering with a CPL.

[IO540]

XXPLOD - it's different in the FAA / USA system.

Here, you do 14 exams for a CPL/IR. And that's after the 7 doing the PPL. In the USA, you do 1 for the PPL, 1 for the CPL, 1 for the IR and 1 for the ATPL. Here, you are given an ATPL after clocking up the hours. There, the ATPL is extra work as I mention (though you still need the 1500hrs in both cases).

Also, the USA has no Class A below 18000ft, which means quite a lot of heavy iron can be flown - if not exactly efficiently - without an IR.

The USA has no type ratings below 12500lb (5700kg) unless it is a turboJET (in general).

[BillieBob]

I think hyperthetically, the answer is yes.

Nothing hyperthetical (or hypothetical come to that) about it, the answer is yes

....they will be thinking on their feet....

Not true, the requirements are quite clearly laid down in JAR-FCL 1 (see my previous post)

So, to do all this, you would have to take the ATPL exams, have to do an initial IR and then complete a course of training, and then take a Licence Proficiency Test on type with an IR included

Almost right - you would have to pass the ATPL exams, hold a MEIR and, before completing an approved type rating course and passing a Licence Skill Test (not a Licence Proficiency Check), also complete an MCC course. (see my previous post)

You'd need the HPA groundschool which not that many places offer

Not true, you need to pass the ATPL(A) exams (see my previous post)

So the groundschool requirements are really only a few months less work than doing the ATPLs anyway.

Not true, the groundschool requirements are to do the ATPLs (see my.......oh, what the hell, why bother.