Fuel pressure gauges. And the like.
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Fuel pressure gauges. And the like.
Afternoon all,
I'm a newbie PPL in a group flying a PA28, and looking for a more experienced outlook.
I was going to take advantage of this glorious autumn day and get out and about, when I noticed the fuel pressure gauge was stuck, reading the same whether pump on, pump off, engine on, engine off.
Now, I suspect the fuel pressure is fine as the engine did as I asked of it on the ground, but given the stuck dial I didn't want to take it up.
My question is, is this a reasonable safety decision, or am I just being a Big Girl?
Regards
JR
I'm a newbie PPL in a group flying a PA28, and looking for a more experienced outlook.
I was going to take advantage of this glorious autumn day and get out and about, when I noticed the fuel pressure gauge was stuck, reading the same whether pump on, pump off, engine on, engine off.
Now, I suspect the fuel pressure is fine as the engine did as I asked of it on the ground, but given the stuck dial I didn't want to take it up.
My question is, is this a reasonable safety decision, or am I just being a Big Girl?
Regards
JR
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Don't fly with something like that. It's possible the reason it was not reading anything is that the pipe has come off and the fuel is spraying out under the cowling, which would be really useful 
And don't let the owner tell you otherwise...
And don't let the owner tell you otherwise...
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1990 PA-28-161 Cadet POH, para 2.19, "kinds of operation equipment list". Item 4. Fuel pressure indicator. Number required: 1. Types of operation: Day, Night, VFR, IFR. And the preamble in that paragraph specifies that the equipment must be "installed and operable", obviously.
So flying a 1990 PA28-161 Cadet without a working fuel pressure gauge means flying it outside the limitations listed in the POH. You did not specify what type of PA-28 you are flying, but I would assume the same would be true for yours.
Worst case scenario: Fly the aircraft without a working fuel pressure gauge, don't notice a fuel line restriction or inop pump early enough, lose engine power, damage the plane during the forced landing, insurance won't pay out because the aircraft was not flown within the limits of the POH and the damage was a direct consequence of that.
So flying a 1990 PA28-161 Cadet without a working fuel pressure gauge means flying it outside the limitations listed in the POH. You did not specify what type of PA-28 you are flying, but I would assume the same would be true for yours.
Worst case scenario: Fly the aircraft without a working fuel pressure gauge, don't notice a fuel line restriction or inop pump early enough, lose engine power, damage the plane during the forced landing, insurance won't pay out because the aircraft was not flown within the limits of the POH and the damage was a direct consequence of that.
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Don't fly it if you are not happy. I once took a PA28 and soon after take off the pressure dropped to zero (with electric pump on)....I told ATC I wanted to go back and I felt a right prat with everyone being moved out of the way for me. The maintenance place gave me grief for it as they said there was no problem "it was the gauge", but a week later, during the run up with student and FI onboard, the engine stopped. The fuel pump packed up and the electric pump wasn't working properly......
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My question is, is this a reasonable safety decision
(Having said which I took off with an undocumented failed piece of kit today, having decided that I didn't need it in flight anyway.)
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For me, more or less the same as englishal, although it was a Robin R2160 and the low fuel pressure indication on the gauge was confirmed by the low fuel pressure warning light. Got a priority landing too with others having to hold. But I did not feel like a prat for that and the maintenance organization did not give me grief over it.
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Thank you folks..
For your kind replies. I'm happy with the decision I made today but am conscious of the fact that I'm a) new at this, and b) a bit neurotic with the checklists and things being just right, so it's good to hear other voices agreeing.
A quick poll of the clubhouse did generate some opinions to the contrary, so I did wonder if experience might alter perspective a bit, hence the question.
jxk, I can't be entirely sure the gauge was stuck, but the needle remained firmly in one unwavering position, irrespective of what the engine or electric fuel pump was doing. Hitting it didn't help either. My experience of this aircraft to date is that turning the electric pump on whilst on the floor does increase the pressure a bit, making the needle move.
Again, thank you all.
JR
A quick poll of the clubhouse did generate some opinions to the contrary, so I did wonder if experience might alter perspective a bit, hence the question.
jxk, I can't be entirely sure the gauge was stuck, but the needle remained firmly in one unwavering position, irrespective of what the engine or electric fuel pump was doing. Hitting it didn't help either. My experience of this aircraft to date is that turning the electric pump on whilst on the floor does increase the pressure a bit, making the needle move.
Again, thank you all.
JR
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Im only a low time ppl too. But if i am not 100% happy don't leave the ground, its simply not worth it. If you have 5000 hours you might be more confident but until then do what you think right at the time and who carres what anyone else says.
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It is time for students to stop accepting the junk which is presented at £xxx/hour.
A student will quite naturally not know much, or anything, about the aircraft systems. There are some well maintained school planes but the majority are decrepit and hang in there only because fixed wing flight is very very tolerant to "issues".
The instructor often applies pressure to accept something, or to not report it in the "tech log".
The problem with fuel systems is that if there is a leak, the implications could be pretty big. At best you might be flying with less fuel than you think; at worst you could get a fire.
Statistically it is probably a duff gauge (like for example EGT probes are more likely to fail than some part of the engine) but that's not the point.
A student will quite naturally not know much, or anything, about the aircraft systems. There are some well maintained school planes but the majority are decrepit and hang in there only because fixed wing flight is very very tolerant to "issues".
The instructor often applies pressure to accept something, or to not report it in the "tech log".
The problem with fuel systems is that if there is a leak, the implications could be pretty big. At best you might be flying with less fuel than you think; at worst you could get a fire.
Statistically it is probably a duff gauge (like for example EGT probes are more likely to fail than some part of the engine) but that's not the point.
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Hello!
More confident maybe, but sometimes also much more stupid. Many years ago when I did my FI checkride on a C150, I noticed that there was no oil pressure after starting the engine. So I reached for the mixture lever to shut it down again. But the examiner said: "Don't worry, it's been like this all morning, yours is my third check today and the engine is doing fine, that must be a fault in the gauge."
After our checkride was over, a student took the Cessna for a solo cross country flight and the next morning the aeroplane was flown to another airfield for its 100 hour check. Soon, the shopowner called the flying school and asked "how long have you been flying like this? The oil pump is broken and there really is no oil pressure!" We were very luck that this was one of the marvellous Rolls-Royce engines they put into C150 aerobats for some time, otherwise one of us stupid guys may have had to pay a high price for his stupidity!
Greetings, Max
If you have 5000 hours you might be more confident...
After our checkride was over, a student took the Cessna for a solo cross country flight and the next morning the aeroplane was flown to another airfield for its 100 hour check. Soon, the shopowner called the flying school and asked "how long have you been flying like this? The oil pump is broken and there really is no oil pressure!" We were very luck that this was one of the marvellous Rolls-Royce engines they put into C150 aerobats for some time, otherwise one of us stupid guys may have had to pay a high price for his stupidity!
Greetings, Max
Knowing what equipment has to be working in the airplane before you go flying is IMO a non optional part of acting as PIC. It should be listed in the POH (which BTW cannot be some tatty photocopy of a aircraft POH study guide, but must be the manufacturers document as issued {including all ammendments} and be noted as applicable for the serial number {or serial number range} of that aircraft). Understanding how the basic sytems work is also important. For example testing the pump before starting the engine is the only way to know the electric auxiliary pumps is actually working. Checking for adequate fuel pressure on the takeoff run is just as important as checking the oil pressure etc etc
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"JR Are you sure the gauge was stuck? Sometimes the pressure remains in the system even with nothing running!"
A couple of pumps of the throttle should see a drop in the pressure if there was anything stuck in the system.
A couple of pumps of the throttle should see a drop in the pressure if there was anything stuck in the system.
