Flying into Airports in Controlled Airspace
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying into Airports in Controlled Airspace
Hello everyone.
I would like to ask what the process is regarding to flying, entering and departing airports in controlled airspace, typically Class D eg, Teeside, East Midlands, Solent etc. I've done a few zone transits now so I know what to expect with regards to a Radar Control Service and Zone transits but if you're landing and you need to hear the ATIS surely you can't just change frequency inside the zone as you need to stay in contact with Approach.
Also can anyone advise a good airport to visit in a zone which isn't going to rip me wallet apart with mandatory handling charges?
Regards. Sam
I would like to ask what the process is regarding to flying, entering and departing airports in controlled airspace, typically Class D eg, Teeside, East Midlands, Solent etc. I've done a few zone transits now so I know what to expect with regards to a Radar Control Service and Zone transits but if you're landing and you need to hear the ATIS surely you can't just change frequency inside the zone as you need to stay in contact with Approach.
Also can anyone advise a good airport to visit in a zone which isn't going to rip me wallet apart with mandatory handling charges?
Regards. Sam
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dorking, England
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I appreciate it's a way South and a little more complicated but do go to Alderney. Not expensive, good experience and beautiful island. Equally Le Touquet is class D.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: U.K.
Posts: 805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the good old days it used to be easy. Of course one would think twice about going into Heathrow or Gatwick because of the landing fee, but these days many of these airports have introduced "compulsorory handling" which costs an arm and a leg on top of a substantial landing fee. Sometimes this handling fee can be avoided if you are known to the flying school/club on the field and can request "taxy to so and so." With luck they can also accept your landing fee and will help you with booking out so you are O.K. It is also good practice for the filing of a VFR flight plan if you want to!
P.P.
P.P.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Wales
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many airports within controlled airspace will have specific entry / departure routes, often using VRPs, that they will expect you to know and follow. This information can be obtained from a VFR Flight Guide or the AIP. Usually you won't be allowed Standard Overhead Joins or Departures.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you need to hear the ATIS surely you can't just change frequency inside the zone as you need to stay in contact with Approach.
Correct point about VRPs and routes. Familiarize yourself with the local requirements and you'll be fine. Also a good idea to have the airport diagram handy (kneeboard) if unfamiliar with the place, as taxi instructions can be complicated at bigger airports.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Daventry
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coventry
Also can anyone advise a good airport to visit in a zone which isn't going to rip me wallet apart with mandatory handling charges?
Come to Cov,we've got ATIS,RAD and TWR,PAPI's,NDB,DME,ILS,VRP's are in all the guides.
Park on western apron and pay a very reasonable fee at Almat flying club.No silly handing fees.
Just watch the 1500' (QNH) ceiling,with the 270' airfield elevation,when you're on QFE you can drift up a bit close.
MM
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is very easy. Call them on the phone first, and tell them you are coming. They may give you a "PPR number".
Then when you are inbound, get the ATIS and call them say 10nm from a VRP or zone boundary - "xyz radar, gabcd 10 miles north of <vrp> with ZULU request joining instructions".
They will probably say somthing like "gabcd i have your details, Cleared into xyz class D, expect runway XX, report at <VRP>". So you do report at <VRP> and then they might say "contact tower now 123.45".
NB: DO NOT ENTER THE CLASS D WITHOUT A CLEARANCE . If unsure just ask them "am I cleared into the xyz class D, gabcd". Some places let you pass your message but don't actually clear you in until you are quite close to their zone boundary.
So you contact tower with something like "xyz tower, Gabcd inbound for landing" (or whatever). You'll probably get something like "report downwind" / "cleared to land" etc....
It is easier than mastering the overhead join at an uncontrolled field on a sunday lunchtime - that is for sure!
Then when you are inbound, get the ATIS and call them say 10nm from a VRP or zone boundary - "xyz radar, gabcd 10 miles north of <vrp> with ZULU request joining instructions".
They will probably say somthing like "gabcd i have your details, Cleared into xyz class D, expect runway XX, report at <VRP>". So you do report at <VRP> and then they might say "contact tower now 123.45".
NB: DO NOT ENTER THE CLASS D WITHOUT A CLEARANCE . If unsure just ask them "am I cleared into the xyz class D, gabcd". Some places let you pass your message but don't actually clear you in until you are quite close to their zone boundary.
So you contact tower with something like "xyz tower, Gabcd inbound for landing" (or whatever). You'll probably get something like "report downwind" / "cleared to land" etc....
It is easier than mastering the overhead join at an uncontrolled field on a sunday lunchtime - that is for sure!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you everyone for your help. Absolutely priceless. I hire a 172 and it only has 1 Com so I'll listen to the ATIS and call up the zone 10nm before entering with the ATIS designator. Might try Durham Tees.
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Age: 69
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have serious questions (which you do) then I heartily encourage you to use the forums to ask - however, are you saying you have done a complete PPL (flight training, written exams and flight test) and are now doing solo rentals - but are not familiar with how to enter controlled airspace?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If you have serious questions (which you do) then I heartily encourage you to use the forums to ask - however, are you saying you have done a complete PPL (flight training, written exams and flight test) and are now doing solo rentals - but are not familiar with how to enter controlled airspace?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Wales
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Englishal:
"xyz radar, gabcd 10 miles north of <vrp> with ZULU request joining instructions".
We can see that you're fond of your headset from another thread, but I don't think you need to tell everyone on the RT.
BP.
"xyz radar, gabcd 10 miles north of <vrp> with ZULU request joining instructions".
We can see that you're fond of your headset from another thread, but I don't think you need to tell everyone on the RT.
BP.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hire a 172 and it only has 1 Com
I have found that even if you do say the correct ATIS letter, they will usually tell you the QNH and runway in use anyway.
And those two are readback items of course.
As for the rest of the ATIS report, such as clouds and sigwx, well, you usually know the cloud situation and sigwx better than the met man in the tower. After all, you're in the middle of it.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first thing is to check PPR requirements, mandatory handling, etc. So get the details from Pooleys and give them a call.
The only UK airports you actually cannot fly to are Heathrow and London City. The others are all OK to go to but some cost silly money (e.g. Gatwick is about £500 including the handling cost, and 24hrs PPR).
Having got that sorted, it is just a case of flying there.... Get the ATIS in good time, and call up their Approach frequency telling them you are "inbound" and whether VFR or IFR - the usual position report. They will tell you what to do. Normally you get transferred to the Tower frequency when somewhere near established on final approach, so have that set up on the radio too.
The bigger ones also have a Ground frequency, and again Tower will tell you if/when to switch over to it. However, even if the Ground frequency is published it often isn't in use so you stay on Tower until shutdown.
When departing:
The bigger airports often like to do a clearance to start the engine, so call up Ground with "Gxxxx request start". Then call up either Ground or Tower (I can never remember which but Ground is a good bet) for a departure clearance (yes, even for VFR - the d.c. will be brief e.g. "after departure climb 600ft then turn right to Hengisbury Head, not above 2000ft").
It's really very simple.
I think it's fair to say that many pilots get lost at every bigger (or smaller
) airport they go to. I certainly do. So have the airport map to hand. Before calling up for departure, locate yourself on that map and work out the taxiways so when you acknowledge the first taxi clearance, you kind of know what they are talking about
The fact that the airport is in CAS is really not relevant. You will be issued with a clearance to enter the CAS on your way in - they can hardly not do that if you are inbound!
I fly around Europe a significant amount, and the biggest hassle is PPR and silly costs. In many places abroad you have separate PPRs for a landing, avgas, Customs, and each of these has to be sorted with separate phone calls, faxes, etc. The UK should be easy in comparison.
Some airports are PNR (prior notice required) but this is de facto same as PPR because you have to be sure they got the notice, so you still need to contact them anyway.....
Some of this stuff can be solved (or circumvented) by telling ATC you are vistiting the local aeroclub there. Obviously, it is desirable to square this up with the aeroclub first
Upmarket GA pilots just call up the handling agent who (for a fee) sorts out the nonsense.
Flying is the easy bit. It is all the crap on the ground
The only UK airports you actually cannot fly to are Heathrow and London City. The others are all OK to go to but some cost silly money (e.g. Gatwick is about £500 including the handling cost, and 24hrs PPR).
Having got that sorted, it is just a case of flying there.... Get the ATIS in good time, and call up their Approach frequency telling them you are "inbound" and whether VFR or IFR - the usual position report. They will tell you what to do. Normally you get transferred to the Tower frequency when somewhere near established on final approach, so have that set up on the radio too.
The bigger ones also have a Ground frequency, and again Tower will tell you if/when to switch over to it. However, even if the Ground frequency is published it often isn't in use so you stay on Tower until shutdown.
When departing:
The bigger airports often like to do a clearance to start the engine, so call up Ground with "Gxxxx request start". Then call up either Ground or Tower (I can never remember which but Ground is a good bet) for a departure clearance (yes, even for VFR - the d.c. will be brief e.g. "after departure climb 600ft then turn right to Hengisbury Head, not above 2000ft").
It's really very simple.
I think it's fair to say that many pilots get lost at every bigger (or smaller
) airport they go to. I certainly do. So have the airport map to hand. Before calling up for departure, locate yourself on that map and work out the taxiways so when you acknowledge the first taxi clearance, you kind of know what they are talking about The fact that the airport is in CAS is really not relevant. You will be issued with a clearance to enter the CAS on your way in - they can hardly not do that if you are inbound!
I fly around Europe a significant amount, and the biggest hassle is PPR and silly costs. In many places abroad you have separate PPRs for a landing, avgas, Customs, and each of these has to be sorted with separate phone calls, faxes, etc. The UK should be easy in comparison.
Some airports are PNR (prior notice required) but this is de facto same as PPR because you have to be sure they got the notice, so you still need to contact them anyway.....
Some of this stuff can be solved (or circumvented) by telling ATC you are vistiting the local aeroclub there. Obviously, it is desirable to square this up with the aeroclub first
Upmarket GA pilots just call up the handling agent who (for a fee) sorts out the nonsense.
Flying is the easy bit. It is all the crap on the ground
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only things to add is:
1. Get the ATIS before you do anything else.
2. I would vary the first call slightly - it may not be CAP, but it makes your intentions very clear: XXXXX with Charlie, 1016, for a booked landing.
In a few words you have make it clear you have the ATIS and have pre-booked a landing slot - viz via, I know what I am doing, I have 'phoned first and I am hoping / expecting a clearance without any fuss.
(Obvioulsy this only applies to airports of sufficient size and importance that you cant just pitch up without having pre-booked - Manston is a good example with their acres of unused tarmac
, but Gatwick would do equally as well)
1. Get the ATIS before you do anything else.
2. I would vary the first call slightly - it may not be CAP, but it makes your intentions very clear: XXXXX with Charlie, 1016, for a booked landing.
In a few words you have make it clear you have the ATIS and have pre-booked a landing slot - viz via, I know what I am doing, I have 'phoned first and I am hoping / expecting a clearance without any fuss.
(Obvioulsy this only applies to airports of sufficient size and importance that you cant just pitch up without having pre-booked - Manston is a good example with their acres of unused tarmac
, but Gatwick would do equally as well)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keygrip. I have entered controlled airspace on numerous occasions, like I said on my initial post which Gertrude the Wombat managed to spot. I had to on my skills test but like I said I've never landed at an airport within CAS and I just wanted some advice which I have to say I instantly received. Thank you again everyone.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Age: 39
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
How about asking a fellow club member to join you? I'm sure someone would jump at the chance.
If I was back in the UK I would offer, but unfortunately i'm not.
Once you've done it, you'll wonder why it worried you so much. In some ways its much easier, because you won't have to worry about circuits, and will be seperated from traffic (not to say you shouldn't be looking).
Also for instance you may be asked to orbit at various points, i.e if you reach a VRP they may ask you to orbit in that position for a short period of time, and then if traffic is on final or the ILS they may ask you to orbit on left or right base.
If I was back in the UK I would offer, but unfortunately i'm not.
Once you've done it, you'll wonder why it worried you so much. In some ways its much easier, because you won't have to worry about circuits, and will be seperated from traffic (not to say you shouldn't be looking).
Also for instance you may be asked to orbit at various points, i.e if you reach a VRP they may ask you to orbit in that position for a short period of time, and then if traffic is on final or the ILS they may ask you to orbit on left or right base.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other thing is if flying to say Birmingham, call up "Birmingham Approach" (or whatever the right name is) not "Birmingham Radio" which is a dead giveaway of a pilot who has not done any homework.
Even better, add "over" to the end of each call, and make a lot of use of "currently" and "at this time" for good measure
Anyway, seriously, one thing not mentioned is filing a flight plan. In the UK this is not legally necessary, and if one is filed it will not be distributed anywhere enroute so it is no help there, but the destination will get it and they will know to expect you around that time. It is probably a good idea. Bigger airports everywhere work in this way.
Even better, add "over" to the end of each call, and make a lot of use of "currently" and "at this time" for good measure
Anyway, seriously, one thing not mentioned is filing a flight plan. In the UK this is not legally necessary, and if one is filed it will not be distributed anywhere enroute so it is no help there, but the destination will get it and they will know to expect you around that time. It is probably a good idea. Bigger airports everywhere work in this way.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Even better, add "over" to the end of each call, and make a lot of use of "currently" and "at this time" for good measure