Regulation of mobile phones on GA flights
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Regulation of mobile phones on GA flights
Hi,
I fly in Austalia and there is no restriction on the use of mobile phones AFAIK. I am just wondering if there are restrictions in any other parts of the world.
Cheers,
James
I fly in Austalia and there is no restriction on the use of mobile phones AFAIK. I am just wondering if there are restrictions in any other parts of the world.
Cheers,
James
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Well it seems they dont mind the odd text or two:
BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Texting saved stricken aeroplane
BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Texting saved stricken aeroplane
Funny you should ask that! I've been trying to get the CAA to advise me one way or another, but all they could come up with was:
Which is ***k all use to anyone, to be honest.
Unfortunately, while I agree that some detailed guidance on the subject would be useful to the GA community, I have no knowledge about regulations outside those published by ourselves and of which you are doubtless aware. We cannot suggest that a particular course of action would be legal, or even acceptable, without detailed knowledge of every possible applicable regulation, and, as you know, our resources are limited.
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What kind of guidance would one expect, and why?
One isn't going to ever get prosecuted for it, so why get guidance.
This isn't like whether one can fly a G-reg on a Mongolian IMC Rating in vis of 1499m, in Class A, under Special VFR
OK, one isn't going to get prosecuted for that one, either 
One isn't going to ever get prosecuted for it, so why get guidance.
This isn't like whether one can fly a G-reg on a Mongolian IMC Rating in vis of 1499m, in Class A, under Special VFR
OK, one isn't going to get prosecuted for that one, either
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I don't give a **** what the regulations are, and I don't need to know:
(1) Airside at airfields which make it a condition of contract that phones be switched off, I switch my phone off.
(2) In the air, as I've seen interference with the COM radio myself and read reports of interference with the NAV radio, I switch my phone off. I would do so regardless of any regulation that did or didn't require me to.
(3) However in an emergency in the air if I needed to talk to someone and had no working radio I'd switch the phone on and use it. I would do so regardless of any regulation saying it wasn't allowed.
If you don't need to know a regulation then it doesn't matter what it is ... except, of course, when it comes to passing an Air Law exam. Some of the questions are just plain daft - who cares whether some visibility limit is 1500m or 1800m, the real answer to the question is not "B" or "D" but "I'm not going to go flying on a day with weather remotely that bad, so it really doesn't matter".
(1) Airside at airfields which make it a condition of contract that phones be switched off, I switch my phone off.
(2) In the air, as I've seen interference with the COM radio myself and read reports of interference with the NAV radio, I switch my phone off. I would do so regardless of any regulation that did or didn't require me to.
(3) However in an emergency in the air if I needed to talk to someone and had no working radio I'd switch the phone on and use it. I would do so regardless of any regulation saying it wasn't allowed.
If you don't need to know a regulation then it doesn't matter what it is ... except, of course, when it comes to passing an Air Law exam. Some of the questions are just plain daft - who cares whether some visibility limit is 1500m or 1800m, the real answer to the question is not "B" or "D" but "I'm not going to go flying on a day with weather remotely that bad, so it really doesn't matter".
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Beags, in the UK it is illegal to use a phone while airborne. It is not a CAA or even an aviation reg, rather one from the old GPO Wireless Telegraphy Act I imagine that restricts the height that the antenna of a transmitting device may be above ground, and is something like 5m max. Not much. A pal of mine got busted for this in the days of CB radio when he put his antenna in a tree to get more range. Done on 2 counts, illegal transmitter and illegal antenna placement.
It certainly used to be the case that when airborne the phone latches onto several relay stations and this gets noticed by the service providers. A pax of mine who regularly used his in the air had threatening letters about it (they thought he was using an illegal booster amplifier). Maybe modern digital phones don't but who knows?
But why? Who is so (self) important that they can't wait until they're on the ground?
I imagine the radio ham community would be the place to ask about this regulation.
It certainly used to be the case that when airborne the phone latches onto several relay stations and this gets noticed by the service providers. A pax of mine who regularly used his in the air had threatening letters about it (they thought he was using an illegal booster amplifier). Maybe modern digital phones don't but who knows?
But why? Who is so (self) important that they can't wait until they're on the ground?
I imagine the radio ham community would be the place to ask about this regulation.
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Agaricus
Not wish to be a pain but rather to keep the record straight, I can find almost nothing that is accurate in your post.
I suggest having a look on the thread on this topic recently (use the search function). It has all been discussed very recently.
As to switching it off there is very little evidence it causes any interference at all, Boeing tried very hard to establish whether a problem existed and failed to identify a single case. Clearly there could be the odd exception and I always turn mine off if in IMC otherwise I cant say I really pay it any attention any more.
I suspect the interference argument may largely be one of those urban myths.
Not wish to be a pain but rather to keep the record straight, I can find almost nothing that is accurate in your post.
I suggest having a look on the thread on this topic recently (use the search function). It has all been discussed very recently.
As to switching it off there is very little evidence it causes any interference at all, Boeing tried very hard to establish whether a problem existed and failed to identify a single case. Clearly there could be the odd exception and I always turn mine off if in IMC otherwise I cant say I really pay it any attention any more.
I suspect the interference argument may largely be one of those urban myths.
Mobile phones are subject to a licence purchased by the phone company from the State where operation takes place. In many countries the terms of that licence does not permit operation from aircraft!
Ignorance of the Law and all that!
I have no knowledge about regulations outside those published by ourselves and of which you are doubtless aware.
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Airside at airfields which make it a condition of contract that phones be switched off, I switch my phone off.
It would make it just slightly difficult to get SMS messages from homebriefing.com advising me of slots, etc. Or to phone the tower to ask if they have my flight plan (which I have filed from my internet-enabled laptop while sitting in the cockpit on the ground - this laptop uses a GSM radio just like a phone but a bit more powerful).
Loads of exec jets have a satellite phone installed.
Etc.
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Mobile phones are subject to a licence purchased by the phone company from the State where operation takes place. In many countries the terms of that licence does not permit operation from aircraft!
You lot seem to be making it up as you go.
Which is why I asked our alleged regulator to get off its complacent backside and answer the damn question!
Anyway, I've asked again that they look into the question. Incidentally, it took one of those "You've had 10 working days now, might I expect an answer soon?" e-mails just to get the initial nonsensical reply.
Anyway, I've asked again that they look into the question. Incidentally, it took one of those "You've had 10 working days now, might I expect an answer soon?" e-mails just to get the initial nonsensical reply.
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Well done on your persistance with the CAA BEagle. I was on the internet the other day to get the football scores and everything seemed to be working fine apart from the signal strength between 4000-6000 ft then it improved again.
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Originally Posted by BEagle
Which is why I asked our alleged regulator to get off its complacent backside and answer the damn question!
As Whopity points out - ignorance tends to be a fairly fallible defence in the eyes of the law.
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No, I think Beagle has a point.
It is the CAAs responsibility to set out the aeronautical regulations concerning the use of mobile 'phones - which if Beagle has reproduced the whole of their reply, they have not done. It would seem by implication there is nothing so far as these regulations are concerned which would prohibit their use. If that is so, they should say so.
So far as other agencies are concerned it would be a simple matter to write to the mobile provider and Ofcom to establish their position if you were that interested.
I recall Boeing concluding in their study that it is unlikely a single CAT departs without at least one mobile 'phone be left switched on - if there is a law prohibiting the "use" of mobiles in flight it must be the most abused law on the statute - unless of course you know better!
I once asked a certain well known airport for permission to land.
Had I PPR'd - erhm, no, so please bu**er off they told me and 'phone in future.
I called and estimated the field in 10 minutes - the ATCo was delighted to take my "booking" although midly surprised I would be that quick - ah well I said, I havent got far to come.
It is the CAAs responsibility to set out the aeronautical regulations concerning the use of mobile 'phones - which if Beagle has reproduced the whole of their reply, they have not done. It would seem by implication there is nothing so far as these regulations are concerned which would prohibit their use. If that is so, they should say so.
So far as other agencies are concerned it would be a simple matter to write to the mobile provider and Ofcom to establish their position if you were that interested.
I recall Boeing concluding in their study that it is unlikely a single CAT departs without at least one mobile 'phone be left switched on - if there is a law prohibiting the "use" of mobiles in flight it must be the most abused law on the statute - unless of course you know better!
I once asked a certain well known airport for permission to land.
Had I PPR'd - erhm, no, so please bu**er off they told me and 'phone in future.
I called and estimated the field in 10 minutes - the ATCo was delighted to take my "booking" although midly surprised I would be that quick - ah well I said, I havent got far to come.
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Fuji, not that I work for the CAA but maybe I can help. There does not appear to be anything in the ANO or Rules of the Air specifically prohibiting the use of mobile phones in aircraft. AOC holders may need to put something in their Ops Manuals an the topic in order to get their certificate but I don't think there's anything similar or GA operations.
I don't know - any more than the CAA bod does - what restrictions the contract which someone else has with their telephone supplier...heck, I'm not even sure what my own one says! But if I cared enough, or thought it mattered in any particular situation, I would look it up. Just as anyone else should. And I wouldn't expect someone from the CAA to do for me - and I wouldn't want them to either...not at the rates they charge.
As you say, Ofcom or the phone service supplier are the best people to ask.
Going back to the ANO, there are many things that are either foolish or can go wrong when associated with aircraft. The rules don't cover everything. If you do something out and out stupid, the CAA has a general, 'catch-all' bit of legislation to prosecute people for endagering others. It's articles 73 and 74 for anyone who can't be bothered to do the research for themselves!
I don't know - any more than the CAA bod does - what restrictions the contract which someone else has with their telephone supplier...heck, I'm not even sure what my own one says! But if I cared enough, or thought it mattered in any particular situation, I would look it up. Just as anyone else should. And I wouldn't expect someone from the CAA to do for me - and I wouldn't want them to either...not at the rates they charge.
As you say, Ofcom or the phone service supplier are the best people to ask.
Going back to the ANO, there are many things that are either foolish or can go wrong when associated with aircraft. The rules don't cover everything. If you do something out and out stupid, the CAA has a general, 'catch-all' bit of legislation to prosecute people for endagering others. It's articles 73 and 74 for anyone who can't be bothered to do the research for themselves!
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Airside at airfields which make it a condition of contract that phones be switched off, I switch my phone off. I didn't know that.
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Gertrude once your in your aircraft the airport rules do not apply. As much as the airport manager would like to think.
You can quite happily sit having a fag out of the window and there is nothing that the airport can do about it. If they try and enter your aircraft you tell them to leave. If they don't they are looking at 6 years for not obeying the lawfull instruction of the Captain in the UK. Its ok for crew to have a fag at the bottom of airframe steps airside put one foot on the ground and they will have you.
As spitoon says there is nothing in the ANO.
and I see your in Cam I have had the very argument with the airport OPS guys about Mobile phones while having my head stuck up the under carriage bay while dealing with a tech problem on my aircraft (the twin TP that sits all day usually next to the fence) the question of how the hell can I speak to my engineers and answer thier questions from outside the fence was never resolved but they never came near me again. That rule is to stop knob ends wandering across taxiways not looking where they are going.
You can quite happily sit having a fag out of the window and there is nothing that the airport can do about it. If they try and enter your aircraft you tell them to leave. If they don't they are looking at 6 years for not obeying the lawfull instruction of the Captain in the UK. Its ok for crew to have a fag at the bottom of airframe steps airside put one foot on the ground and they will have you.
As spitoon says there is nothing in the ANO.
and I see your in Cam I have had the very argument with the airport OPS guys about Mobile phones while having my head stuck up the under carriage bay while dealing with a tech problem on my aircraft (the twin TP that sits all day usually next to the fence) the question of how the hell can I speak to my engineers and answer thier questions from outside the fence was never resolved but they never came near me again. That rule is to stop knob ends wandering across taxiways not looking where they are going.
Last edited by mad_jock; 20th Sep 2009 at 00:37.
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I once asked a certain well known airport for permission to land.
Had I PPR'd - erhm, no, so please bu**er off they told me and 'phone in future.
I called and estimated the field in 10 minutes - the ATCo was delighted to take my "booking" although midly surprised I would be that quick - ah well I said, I havent got far to come.
Had I PPR'd - erhm, no, so please bu**er off they told me and 'phone in future.
I called and estimated the field in 10 minutes - the ATCo was delighted to take my "booking" although midly surprised I would be that quick - ah well I said, I havent got far to come.
That particular airfield became well known for its mad PPR policy, and (according to one of its management people I spoke to more recently) decided to change things, because they found they lost a lot of traffic due to this. That's the way to deal with these places: publicise them and avoid going there. Eventually they get the message.
A notice on the gate leading airside? It's their train set, they can set the rules for people who want to play with it.
Not being able to use a phone airside is a bizzare rule which has to be breached as soon as something urgent happens.
I can fully understand a phone ban on the baggage handlers - they used them to warn the organised gangs opening the luggage and nicking stuff out of it that security men are on their way.