SVFR Birmingham EGBB
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SVFR Birmingham EGBB
Hopefully travelling from Cambridge to Wolverhamton Halfpenny and wondering if anyone has experiance of getting a SVFR transit through Birmingham airport overhead
or is this wishful thinking
Cheers for your help
or is this wishful thinking
Cheers for your help
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Do you mean VFR rather than SVFR? It's Class D airspace.
It does however involve routing over a congested area.
From personal experience, no problems, in a twin engined helicopter.
It does however involve routing over a congested area.
From personal experience, no problems, in a twin engined helicopter.
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Wouldn't you route South of the Birmingham Zone to Halfpenny Green, as they're located just on the South Westerly edge? Therefore no need for a zone transit over some pretty built up areas.
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1800ed
Are you thinking of Wellesbourne Mountford ? Halfpenny Green is about 20 ish miles WNW of Brum. Re the original question. It used to be subject to traffic whether a direct routing could be offered but if you don't ask you don't get
Wouldn't you route South of the Birmingham Zone to Halfpenny Green, as they're located just on the South Westerly edge? Therefore no need for a zone transit over some pretty built up areas.
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Its 50/50 as I have done it in twins a lot being able to ask for an IFR clearance through also helps although they do give VFR sometimes and I have been asked which I would prefer.
Whether they would be less accomodating in a single I dont know as you are crossing a lot of built up area.
It is probably wiser to route south and around the airspace or shoot north towards LIC and then take a left
remember there is also CAS to the south East which you need to keep under
Pace
Whether they would be less accomodating in a single I dont know as you are crossing a lot of built up area.
It is probably wiser to route south and around the airspace or shoot north towards LIC and then take a left
remember there is also CAS to the south East which you need to keep under Pace
Last edited by Pace; 21st Aug 2009 at 23:08.
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Go through the overhead at a decent height and at (or as close to as you can get to) 90 degrees to the runway, and you stand a good chance. And sound good on the radio..
edited becuase of dodgy english
edited becuase of dodgy english
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Let us know how you get on!
EGBB have been ok with me when I have asked for a VFR transit out of Coventry, Via Honiley out to Bromsgrove. Refused once because of unidentified zone infringer near Kenilworth; late clearance once because inbound traffic. All times I've tried though they have been fairly honest about it...
.. and this was all in a single heli.
C.
EGBB have been ok with me when I have asked for a VFR transit out of Coventry, Via Honiley out to Bromsgrove. Refused once because of unidentified zone infringer near Kenilworth; late clearance once because inbound traffic. All times I've tried though they have been fairly honest about it...
.. and this was all in a single heli.
C.
I think that a VFR clearance is preferable to SVFR. If you receive a SVFR clearance the controller has to separate you from other traffic by a greater degree and this may cause you delays.
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Well I got that clearance 0915 went straight overhead Coventry then cleared to the east of NEC then cleared to pass just before Runway 33 threshold at 2,500ft
Was great as was expecting to be told standby !
Was great as was expecting to be told standby !
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Much as I hoped.
I had the fortune of being taught to fly by an EGBB controller in 1970. As a result, and the fact that I subsequently became an instructor in the locality, I got to know many of the controllers and spent much time in that tower drinking ATC tea. The attitude was always to facilitate the most expeditious movement of aircraft - including PPLs in singles on VFR or SVFR clearances. They are much busier now, but it is good to hear that the successors of my acquaintances of the past are still doing their best for PPLs. I learned all those years ago that if your RT technique is good and confident you can get almost anywhere. Just make sure you have a get-out in case your polite request for, say, a SVFR transit overhead Heathrow at 2000' is just as politely declined!
P.P.
I had the fortune of being taught to fly by an EGBB controller in 1970. As a result, and the fact that I subsequently became an instructor in the locality, I got to know many of the controllers and spent much time in that tower drinking ATC tea. The attitude was always to facilitate the most expeditious movement of aircraft - including PPLs in singles on VFR or SVFR clearances. They are much busier now, but it is good to hear that the successors of my acquaintances of the past are still doing their best for PPLs. I learned all those years ago that if your RT technique is good and confident you can get almost anywhere. Just make sure you have a get-out in case your polite request for, say, a SVFR transit overhead Heathrow at 2000' is just as politely declined!
P.P.
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Pace, you state that Birmingham "do give VFR sometimes". In fact they should allow VFR all the time, subject to traffic, as it is Class D airspace and the whole point about Class D airspace is that VFR flight should be approved unless one's flight will conflict with other traffic. Even then they should just vector you around it.
So if BHX refuse you a VFR clearance, and you don't think there is a reason for it (except that they'd prefer not to have VFR traffic in their Area), phone them up and ask them why. Or you can report the matter to CAA-DAP, who would be pleased to hear from you.
Nothing against BHX, per se, just a drive to get units that manage Class D airspace to allow VFR traffic through it. Remember, they don't "own" this airspace, they just manage it.
So if BHX refuse you a VFR clearance, and you don't think there is a reason for it (except that they'd prefer not to have VFR traffic in their Area), phone them up and ask them why. Or you can report the matter to CAA-DAP, who would be pleased to hear from you.
Nothing against BHX, per se, just a drive to get units that manage Class D airspace to allow VFR traffic through it. Remember, they don't "own" this airspace, they just manage it.
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But they cannot give a VFR clearance if the prevailing meteorological conditions are below those for VFR.
In that instance, they may offer SVFR as an alternative to IFR.
In that instance, they may offer SVFR as an alternative to IFR.
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There have been several references to a SVFR clearance which is not required for class D unless the ceiling is below 1500ft and/or vis below 5k, in which case, without an instrument qualification, a minimum 10k vis will actually be necessary for SVFR, however, with a higher ceiling, a normal VFR clearance will only need 5k vis.
Perverse, but that is UK air law for you.
Edited to add that this was posted before reading shy torque's post above which is of course correct, provided your qualifications enable acceptance.
Perverse, but that is UK air law for you.
Edited to add that this was posted before reading shy torque's post above which is of course correct, provided your qualifications enable acceptance.
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and just like any management they have the ability to refuse entry!
VFR will not hinder IFR, nor the safe operation of all other Flights be that IFR or VFR. If a clearance is not possible then they have every right to refuse it. No controller will refuse a clearance just because they want an easy life, they will do their very best to accomodate it, but when a clearnace request is just plain dumb (i.e North to south via Honiley) right up the final approach and then the climb out, just before you phone the DAP ask yourself why do you think it was refused?
The poster who wants more entry to class D airspace, will find that ATC always try and accomodate entry, normally suggesting a better routing that will work. But the education to gain more entry for VFR needs to be with the Pilots that request it not the contollers. The level of intelligence shown sometimes for requests to enter controlled airspace is nill, which obviously doesnt help promote controllers confidence in allowing VFR entry. Would you drive down the M6 the wrong way just because you pay your road tax and its a route that suits you?
VFR will not hinder IFR, nor the safe operation of all other Flights be that IFR or VFR. If a clearance is not possible then they have every right to refuse it. No controller will refuse a clearance just because they want an easy life, they will do their very best to accomodate it, but when a clearnace request is just plain dumb (i.e North to south via Honiley) right up the final approach and then the climb out, just before you phone the DAP ask yourself why do you think it was refused?
The poster who wants more entry to class D airspace, will find that ATC always try and accomodate entry, normally suggesting a better routing that will work. But the education to gain more entry for VFR needs to be with the Pilots that request it not the contollers. The level of intelligence shown sometimes for requests to enter controlled airspace is nill, which obviously doesnt help promote controllers confidence in allowing VFR entry. Would you drive down the M6 the wrong way just because you pay your road tax and its a route that suits you?
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Pace, you state that Birmingham "do give VFR sometimes". In fact they should allow VFR all the time, subject to traffic, as it is Class D airspace and the whole point about Class D airspace is that VFR flight should be approved unless one's flight will conflict with other traffic. Even then they should just vector you around it.
The best option is to have alternative plans then a direct clearance is a bonus.
As one poster said good RT helps as does sounding as if you know what you are doing rather than some loose canon who doesnt.
I usually ask for IFR first as it gives ATC the option to slot me in with other IFR traffic, move me around and know I will be maintaining a set level/altitude.
That seems to give the best chance of a direct clerance through followed by VFR if traffic allows.
Pace
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I'm learning good things here. As an IMC rated pilot are my chances of a zone transit in class D generally better asking for IFR rather than VFR? I often wish to transit through Southampton. Thanks.
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As one poster said good RT helps as does sounding as if you know what you are doing rather than some loose canon who doesnt.
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Asking for IFR rather than VFR is not always the answer, it does mean that perhaps a higher level can be used or vectors given-but does mean I have to separate you from my other IFR traffic which poses challenges of its own
normally being VFR and willing to be a little bit flexible wins every time(or as 3miles says not asking for the impossible!)for instance at East Mids asking for transit via EME not above 2000ft is normally tricky but routing east of wymeswold at that level can normally be accomodated with little fuss
normally being VFR and willing to be a little bit flexible wins every time(or as 3miles says not asking for the impossible!)for instance at East Mids asking for transit via EME not above 2000ft is normally tricky but routing east of wymeswold at that level can normally be accomodated with little fuss