Cost of light aircraft ownership

[Busbo]

Before someone says so, I have done a search and the only threads I could find on this topic are years old so no doubt somewhat out of date.

I am looking into starting a no-equity flying scheme in Scotland and trying to crunch some numbers. Does anyone have any experience of such a thing? Just some ball-park figures for yearly costs for the ownership of light aircraft would be a great start.

I'm possibly looking at a small twin seater for hour-builders and maybe a four seater (C172, PA28 or Cirrus type) for the leisure user.

Any info and guidance would be much appreciated.

[flybymike]

It is a big question with many answers. Hangarage alone at Leeds Bradford is £7000pa, this, insurance and the annual inspection take up the majority of cost and that is before landing fees or anything going wrong with the aeroplane which may be expensive to fix (eg new engine) Certified aircraft will generally cost more to maintain than permit aircraft and LSA types significantly less still. Just to depress you, we reckon on expending about £20,000pa to run a 6 seater single out of a large airport and we do not clock up many hours either. A small LSA or permit aircraft based on a grass strip will be a fraction of this amount.

[Stephen Furner]

A good starting point

A good starting point is Dave Williams page this gives the costs of operating G-BSEP a Cessna 172.

Aircraft group ownership costs - David Williams flying homepage

To this I would add at least £2k to cover the cost of engineer’s inspection reports on several aircraft. When you view an aircraft be prepared to walk away if you have any doubts; particularly, if you are looking at the budget end of the market.

Issues I would recommend having thought through in advance are how you are going to maintain the aircraft and where you are going to keep it. There may be some constraints or tradeoffs here. For example if you don’t have a hangar to keep your machine in then a spam can is typically going to be a better option than a rag and tube.

Talk to a few people who operate the specific model of aircraft you are interested in and build a simple financial model around your fixed and variable costs. Most people I’ve spoken to work out their cost of ownership based around the number of hours the aircraft will be used. Typically as you increase hours flown the cost per hour will drop. There will be a point at which the number of hours flown causes the cost per hour to drop below that of hiring from you local club. This tends to be what people are attempting to achieve for the aircraft they purchase for themselves or a group.

[Kiltie]

Replace my own guessed costs (C172) with your own local researched ones:

Fixed costs pa whether the aircraft flies or not:

Hangarage £1500
Insurance £2000
Annual check £2000
Radio Licence £20
Unforseen contingency £500
....split this lot as a monthly subscription by all your members


Hourly Costs incurred only when the aircraft flies:

Fuel 36L per hr £53
Oil £2 - it may not use that much though
Engine replacement fund (if 2000 hrs left) £7
Home base landing fee £10
50 hour check (or 6 months if you don't reach 50hrs) £7
.... to be paid by each individual when he/she flies

Remember you cannot "hire" your aircraft legally if the engine has exceeded 12 (?) years of age; if run privately it can run indefinitely to TBO on inspection of condition.

Please don't shoot me down with cries of how much less your own C172s cost to run; some are more predictable than others!

[411A]

Hourly costs, all in, for approximately 100 flying hours per year, type aircraft CE411A, $263/hr.

[Unusual Attitude]

Dont know the breakdown of costs but our C172 group has a wet rate of £55 per hr and a monthly of £60 between 12 members, you pay your own landing fees.

The group has been running for about 15 year and always has a good level of funds based on the above.

[Justiciar]

There are a limited number of ways to legally run a no equity group. The easiest is to run the aircraft through a company with the members of the group owning at least a 5% share of the company capital. The structure of a friendly society is often used for this as they are not permitted to distribute their capital to members on a winding up. In other words, ownership of a share is notional but enough to comply with the ANO, which would otherwise mean that the cost share would count as aerial work. The only other way is to have the aircraft on a public C of A, ie maintained to a pulic transport level as opposed to a private level.

[Unusual Attitude]

On the 5% thing, I actually know of one group based around the 20 shares (5% each) basis but when they sell you a share at £1000, your share value is £1 and the £999 difference is a non-refundable joining fee.

Not quite so sure of the legality of that however....lets just say that the group model relies on a high turnaround of members paying the non-refundable £999 to keep the finances workable and tends to have a lot of 'in-fighting'....

[waldopepper42]

Think of what you can afford.

Double it.

[hatzflyer]

" a small twin seater"
Evans VP2.... £2000 LAA Permit aircraft
Rocket 2......£150000 " " " " " "

How long is a piece of string?

[Justiciar]

On the 5% thing, I actually know of one group based around the 20 shares (5% each) basis but when they sell you a share at £1000, your share value is £1 and the £999 difference is a non-refundable joining fee.

Not quite so sure of the legality of that however....

Perfectly possible legally, though usually the seller would dispose of his share on the open market as a company does not normally buy its own shares - there are quite detailed rules about when it can do so.

[Brooklands]

Think of what you can afford.

Double it.

Then put a nought on the end

Brooklands

[IO540]

and even then it is worth every penny

1) Maintenance to YOUR standards
2) Knowledge nobody else has pranged it and didn't own up
3) No group disputes
4) Total access
5) Ability to do long flying-away holidays on which the airborne time is just some hours
6) No need to worry about dodgy engine management by others (cracked cylinders discovered years after X has left the group)
7) No need to worry about forged flight times
8) No need to accept the cheapest quote for a job (which may come from a crap company)
etc
etc
etc

That said, a small syndicate has to be the best compromise between cost and the benefits, but you do have to choose the members carefully. And it's not that easy to do due diligence if you are joining an existing syndicate because they are not going to reveal past disputes over e.g. fixing some bit of avionics which some regards as unnecessary.

[gasax]

IO has some good points, but they apply more to ownership and small groups. Your plan of 'non-equity' shares and tiime builders captures the least caring and most cost driven part of the market.

So they will not look after it, they might 'flog' the log, they certainly will not operate the engine so it reaches tbo, clean it, worry if it gets scuffed about...

So the sort of costs people are giving you can be factored up by almost any amount. The group I was in many years ago had 2 'time builders' out of 20 members. Virtually every dispute and every technical glitch came as a direct result of them.

Bluntly it was not worth the blood pressure so we gave them the money for their shares and chucked them out - peace and tranquility returned...

From having to ask these questions you obviously do not have the experience of running an aircraft - that can be difficult enough, adding in 19 others who in most cases will not give a damn? A mugs game I'm afraid.

[IO540]

Your plan of 'non-equity' shares and tiime builders captures the least caring and most cost driven part of the market.

I agree. IMHO this can be made to work only with a piece of wreckage. The non-equity groups around the nice Cirrus SR22s probably make it work by selling the hour-blocks for £loads, but they won't be attractive to hour builders.

[Human Factor]

Roughly (very!!) speaking:

If you fly up to 20 hours per year, hire.

Over 20 hours per year, syndicate.

Into the hundreds per year and ownership starts to make more sense.

[JW411]

I have a PA28 which is on a Public Transport C of A. My fixed costs are between £11000 and £12000 per annum.

[VictorGolf]

I own a Glos-Airtourer (low-wing 2-seater on a UK CAA Cof A) and it has cost me an average of £110 per hour for about 35-40 hours per annum over the last 6 years. Everything included, except cost of capital as it only cost me £5,500 23 years ago and I reckon I might get that back and a bit more. It's kept in a hangar on a grass strip and I use Joint Aviation for their Power by the Hour insurance. The main value is that it's always there when I want it.

[Justiciar]

I have a PA28 which is on a Public Transport C of A. My fixed costs are between £11000 and £12000 per annum.

I was treasurer of a PA28 group for several years and I have to say that our fixed costs were nothing like that! It was on a private C of A, but even so ....

I would be interested in a rough breakdown.

[Dr John Watson]

For what it's worth

PA28-140 Cherokee run as non commercial

Hangarage per year £1500
Insurance (1 Passenger) £ 734
Annual (estimate ) £2300

Full at cost.

Operate from a small grass strip as it's all a 140 needs.