Advice sought on GPS/Transponder/radio.
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Advice sought on GPS/Transponder/radio.
Looking for some product advice.
A small group of us are buying a very light weight aerobatic biplane. The aeroplane requires a fair bit of work to finish it off. Each syndicate member has a list of jobs. One of mine is to recommend which GPS, Transponder and Radio we should buy.
Our priorities are: performance per pound(high)/quality(good)/weight(low)/size(small)/futureproof(yes!)
I'm hoping for personal experience good or bad, and if you are feeling really kind in this format:
Product name.
Price.
Pros.
Cons.
Many thanks.
A small group of us are buying a very light weight aerobatic biplane. The aeroplane requires a fair bit of work to finish it off. Each syndicate member has a list of jobs. One of mine is to recommend which GPS, Transponder and Radio we should buy.
Our priorities are: performance per pound(high)/quality(good)/weight(low)/size(small)/futureproof(yes!)
I'm hoping for personal experience good or bad, and if you are feeling really kind in this format:
Product name.
Price.
Pros.
Cons.
Many thanks.
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Product name. Trig TT21
Price. £1260.00
Pros. Mode S with ES (ADS-B compatible)
Cons.It is very small
Product name Microair M760 VHF Transceiver
Price £640.00
Pros Fits your criteria
Cons hard to install, fiddly because it is small
GPS – Do you want portable or panel mount?
Rod1
Price. £1260.00
Pros. Mode S with ES (ADS-B compatible)
Cons.It is very small
Product name Microair M760 VHF Transceiver
Price £640.00
Pros Fits your criteria
Cons hard to install, fiddly because it is small
GPS – Do you want portable or panel mount?
Rod1
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Originally Posted by Rod1
Product name. Trig TT21
Price. £1260.00
Pros. Mode S with ES (ADS-B compatible)
Cons.It is very small
Product name Microair M760 VHF Transceiver
Price £640.00
Pros Fits your criteria
Cons hard to install, fiddly because it is small
GPS – Do you want portable or panel mount?
Rod1
Price. £1260.00
Pros. Mode S with ES (ADS-B compatible)
Cons.It is very small
Product name Microair M760 VHF Transceiver
Price £640.00
Pros Fits your criteria
Cons hard to install, fiddly because it is small
GPS – Do you want portable or panel mount?
Rod1
Regarding the GPS ideally we would like a panel mount for the front with the facility to remote a portable unit to the rear. But it has to be able to take +/- 5g.
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Struggling on the GPS without an idea of the panel layout / budget. If it were my aircraft I would probably rip out the engine instruments and most of the flight instruments and fit an MGL Enigma, which would do everything and give an emergency blind flying option. Alternatively, my old 196 GPS and panel mount bracket would be ok at +6 –3G so you could go with one 296 and one 196 (same mount). I have a 196 for sale second hand if you are interested.
What is the aircraft?
Rod1
What is the aircraft?
Rod1
Avoid imitations
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How about a GNS 430?
Radio/VOR and GPS in one box. Can be updated on a data card every month, via internet download.
Radio/VOR and GPS in one box. Can be updated on a data card every month, via internet download.
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My ideal panel would include a bracket for the Garmin 196/296/496 series. The bracket itself is relatively inexpensive and allows everybody to slip in his/her own GPS, with the flight plan, updates and everything already loaded.
Plus the pilots will probably be very familiar with their own GPS and not necessarily the GPS you choose for them. I have once seen a Diamond fitted with dual Garmin 430s take off with two additional GPSs (296s) on the dash, because the pilots were not familiar with the 430 and didn't know how to load their plan in them.
For serious aerobatics, just leave the GPS at home if you're worried about it coming out of the bracket during a flick roll or so. Saves a little weight too.
While you're at it, consider the need/wish for an ELT as well.
Plus the pilots will probably be very familiar with their own GPS and not necessarily the GPS you choose for them. I have once seen a Diamond fitted with dual Garmin 430s take off with two additional GPSs (296s) on the dash, because the pilots were not familiar with the 430 and didn't know how to load their plan in them.
For serious aerobatics, just leave the GPS at home if you're worried about it coming out of the bracket during a flick roll or so. Saves a little weight too.
While you're at it, consider the need/wish for an ELT as well.
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Originally Posted by Rod1
If it were my aircraft I would probably rip out the engine instruments and most of the flight instruments and fit an MGL Enigma
"The engine instruments have been replaced with a Grand Rapids Technology, Engine Information System which monitors every aspect of the engine's operation, 4 EGTs, 4 CHTs, tach, MAP, fuel flow, fuel pressure, oil pressure, oil temp, peak EGT detection, volts, amps and all with programmable warnings. It has remote controls in the rear cockpit."
Grand Rapids Technologies
So not really an option to change this due to budget.
Originally Posted by Rod1
Alternatively, my old 196 GPS and panel mount bracket would be ok at +6 –3G so you could go with one 296 and one 196 (same mount). I have a 196 for sale second hand if you are interested
Something to think about when fitting -out a cockpit; if you leave an avionics tech to fit `stuff`, he will undoubtedly scatter everything about into places convenient to him- not to you as a pilot. Most instrument panels are relatively vertical- try tilting the bottom of the panel 10-15 deg towards you,or `tilt` some of the smaller insruments in the same manner.Think about the short pilots,and the tall ones,each has on optimum eye-line; same with `function`,frequency of use,do I need to twist my neck or lean excessively to operate it when wearing a parachute/LSJ/winter woolies,is it well lit,either naturally/lights/parallax ( is part of the display hidden ?); can those with shorter arms operate the switchery/knobs/buttons satisfactorily. I`ve seen many aircraft (ex-mil) that have had a `makeover`,with new avionics that have been fitted with seats removed,,and then when one gets strapped in,you find switches,indicators,lights hidden under coamings,etc with little thought about function.
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I have a Microair and 296. The Microair has a mixed record for reliability and noise in the intercom. Good ones are good, bad ones....... The Beckers and Filsers seem to be better. The 296 is fine - but do try the unit, accessing some of the functions takes some learning. My transponder is the compact Becker C - excellent unit. The three of these are considerably cheaper (and lighter) (and easier to use) than the 430.
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Update:
Just a quick update on the front runners so far. Still appreciate any tips or experience of these or similar products:
GPS - Garmin 695. Looks a great all round product with the bonus of a big bright screen and emergency back up instrumentation.
695 info.
c.£1500 + VAT
Transponder - TT21. Mode S, Lightweight, separate control panel, fair price.
TT21 info.
c.£1300 + VAT
Transceiver - ATR 883 OLED. German! Small, lightweight, dual-watch, frequency memory and voice controlled.
ATR 883 info.
c. £1300 including remote + VAT.
Still appreciate any more tips!
GPS - Garmin 695. Looks a great all round product with the bonus of a big bright screen and emergency back up instrumentation.
695 info.
c.£1500 + VAT
Transponder - TT21. Mode S, Lightweight, separate control panel, fair price.
TT21 info.
c.£1300 + VAT
Transceiver - ATR 883 OLED. German! Small, lightweight, dual-watch, frequency memory and voice controlled.
ATR 883 info.
c. £1300 including remote + VAT.
Still appreciate any more tips!
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Personally I would discard the Microair from any list of mine; it seems if you get a good one they are excellent value, a poor one is too fond of return trips to Australia to attempt to improve so they work properly (and fail to get better for more than 6 months).
The TRIG in all its guises is an excellent bit of kit, nothing but praise.
For future proofing the COM the Funkwerk ATR833 is excellent.
For GPS anything by Garmin if you like 'vector' mapping. Both Airbox and Flymap do nav. on a representation of the CAA (or Jepp) charts, if you prefer that. I find their smaller units unsatisfactory (very limited useful zoom range) unless used always to show you where you are on the chart you are holding. If the Garmin 695 fits your size/budget it is a magic bit of kit.
Whatever you fit will depend for reliable operation on high quality wiring and installation - don't skimp on that or your money on boxes is wasted.
The TRIG in all its guises is an excellent bit of kit, nothing but praise.
For future proofing the COM the Funkwerk ATR833 is excellent.
For GPS anything by Garmin if you like 'vector' mapping. Both Airbox and Flymap do nav. on a representation of the CAA (or Jepp) charts, if you prefer that. I find their smaller units unsatisfactory (very limited useful zoom range) unless used always to show you where you are on the chart you are holding. If the Garmin 695 fits your size/budget it is a magic bit of kit.
Whatever you fit will depend for reliable operation on high quality wiring and installation - don't skimp on that or your money on boxes is wasted.
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Look at the XCom transceiver. Much better than Microair by reports.
XCOM 760 VHF Aircraft Transceiver for Sport Aircraft, Ultralights and other Aircraft Needing Clear Powerful Transmission LSA, Light sport aircraft
XCOM 760 VHF Aircraft Transceiver for Sport Aircraft, Ultralights and other Aircraft Needing Clear Powerful Transmission LSA, Light sport aircraft
Last edited by rjtjrt; 12th Oct 2010 at 09:45. Reason: Spelling
I would endorse the quality of the XCOM, now they have sorted out their early software issues. Probably the best integral intercom of any VHF COM set.
However it has neither a 'grandfather rights' CAA approval number, nor EASA Form 1 and so is ineligible for any UK radio installation licence. I gather people have been creative with their paperwork to get around this.....
However it has neither a 'grandfather rights' CAA approval number, nor EASA Form 1 and so is ineligible for any UK radio installation licence. I gather people have been creative with their paperwork to get around this.....
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This may be on a tangent but you don't need a Form 1 with a radio, for it to be installable on a G-reg.
An FAA 8103-3 is just fine, if the radio is a new part.
In fact, from digging around a while ago in CAA docs, any paperwork providing traceability is good enough, but nobody has a financial incentive to tell you that
What you need to do an installation in an ICAO CofA aircraft is Approved Data (e.g. a TSO), which is a different thing from traceability.
An FAA 8103-3 is just fine, if the radio is a new part.
In fact, from digging around a while ago in CAA docs, any paperwork providing traceability is good enough, but nobody has a financial incentive to tell you that
What you need to do an installation in an ICAO CofA aircraft is Approved Data (e.g. a TSO), which is a different thing from traceability.
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GPS - Garmin 695. Looks a great all round product with the bonus of a big bright screen and emergency back up instrumentation.
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There is also the new Avmap EKP 5.
Unfortunately, all the large-screen units (the above, the 696, etc) have a battery life of under an hour, in reality, which is not great for the loss of electrical power scenario.
Regardless of details of map data I would go for a big unit over the Garmin x96 anytime. I have a 496 in the yoke (as a backup, and for its audio TAWS function which does work very well) and the map is too tiny for flying with, if this is to be your only GPS.
Unfortunately, all the large-screen units (the above, the 696, etc) have a battery life of under an hour, in reality, which is not great for the loss of electrical power scenario.
Regardless of details of map data I would go for a big unit over the Garmin x96 anytime. I have a 496 in the yoke (as a backup, and for its audio TAWS function which does work very well) and the map is too tiny for flying with, if this is to be your only GPS.