Anyone out there suffer anxiety/agoraphobia
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Anyone out there suffer anxiety/agoraphobia
Bit of an odd first post, this, but here goes... I did 4 hours in a C152 15 years ago, and due to work moving all over the place, plus my instructor at the time was a bit of a stiff shirt, and my confidence was destroyed to the point where it didn't seem any fun to carry on.
Anyway - last week I had my first lesson in a fixed wing microlight (Ikarus C42), and it was a blast! I can't say I wasn't nervous, but the instructor was really sympathetic and in the end I stayed up for the whole hour and tried lots of stuff to refresh my memory, and even managed the final landing without killing anyone
Really strange was that I flew the kinds of distances that, if in a car, would have had me feeling really anxious, but up in the air I felt fine...??!!
Is anyone else out there learning to fly despite suffering from panic or agorophobia or anything like that? I would welcome the moral support
Steve
Anyway - last week I had my first lesson in a fixed wing microlight (Ikarus C42), and it was a blast! I can't say I wasn't nervous, but the instructor was really sympathetic and in the end I stayed up for the whole hour and tried lots of stuff to refresh my memory, and even managed the final landing without killing anyone
Really strange was that I flew the kinds of distances that, if in a car, would have had me feeling really anxious, but up in the air I felt fine...??!!
Is anyone else out there learning to fly despite suffering from panic or agorophobia or anything like that? I would welcome the moral support
Steve
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Steve,
My unqualified input:
A lot of these conditions are very much in the head, which I guess is why hypnosis is so often helpful. (Think fear of flying, fear of public speaking, fear of water, fear of spiders etc..)
I suspect that because your mind was in a happy place whilst flying, it forgot all about its' fear of open spaces.
I've taken plenty of people sailing who were at first quite anxious and fearful, but with careful management they were eventually able to thoroughly enjoy it.
More recently I've done the same with taking people flying, although I'm more cautious about that as I'm not as experienced at flying as I am with sailing and so am wary of handling nervous passengers correctly when under stress.
It sounds like your instructor, conciously or not, was able to put you in a frame of mind that enabled you to relax and enjoy yourself.
I think it would help you generally if you could recall that happy relaxed euphoric feeling when stressed and it might help you reduce the symptoms.
just my tuppeny-worth you understand.
My unqualified input:
A lot of these conditions are very much in the head, which I guess is why hypnosis is so often helpful. (Think fear of flying, fear of public speaking, fear of water, fear of spiders etc..)
I suspect that because your mind was in a happy place whilst flying, it forgot all about its' fear of open spaces.
I've taken plenty of people sailing who were at first quite anxious and fearful, but with careful management they were eventually able to thoroughly enjoy it.
More recently I've done the same with taking people flying, although I'm more cautious about that as I'm not as experienced at flying as I am with sailing and so am wary of handling nervous passengers correctly when under stress.
It sounds like your instructor, conciously or not, was able to put you in a frame of mind that enabled you to relax and enjoy yourself.
I think it would help you generally if you could recall that happy relaxed euphoric feeling when stressed and it might help you reduce the symptoms.
just my tuppeny-worth you understand.
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Yeah, I've been trying to conquer the anxiety for a while... I know the techniques to manage it. It is indeed a head-game, but unless you've been there' it's hard to empathise. Anxiety and panic is certainly VERY stigmatised and misunderstood. I certainly think my instructor deserves a beer for taking me up - after reading of some posts regarding people "freaking out" I'd shy away from taking someone up who showed signs of going fubar in the air.
Personally I guess I'm lucky that my desire to stay alive has always over-ridden any feelings of panic. Quit why anyone would want to hold onto the controls and freeze up is beyond me.
Of course, when you are flying solo you don't have the option to pass the aircraft to the other seat, so you just have to deal with it.
The secret to success I feel is taking things in small steps. Don't try to be a hero, or steely eyed sky god (as someone put it) when your instructor asks you to do something you aren't comfortable with. If you just go and do it anyway, the memory will probably be negative, and you will just reinforce the panic next time you have to do that manoeuvre.
I'm supposed to be up again tomorrow, so we'll see if I'm right
Personally I guess I'm lucky that my desire to stay alive has always over-ridden any feelings of panic. Quit why anyone would want to hold onto the controls and freeze up is beyond me.
Of course, when you are flying solo you don't have the option to pass the aircraft to the other seat, so you just have to deal with it.
The secret to success I feel is taking things in small steps. Don't try to be a hero, or steely eyed sky god (as someone put it) when your instructor asks you to do something you aren't comfortable with. If you just go and do it anyway, the memory will probably be negative, and you will just reinforce the panic next time you have to do that manoeuvre.
I'm supposed to be up again tomorrow, so we'll see if I'm right
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Peter Champion - Agoraphobia cured by gliding
You should try and find a copy of Glider Pilot by Peter Champion - published in the early 70s.
I know Peter from the same gliding club then, his book discribes how he overcome agoraphobia via gliding. I've not read it so can't comment how good it is.
Good luck!
RS
I know Peter from the same gliding club then, his book discribes how he overcome agoraphobia via gliding. I've not read it so can't comment how good it is.
Good luck!
RS
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Thanks Rusty, I'll look it up. To be honest, just knowing that others have overcome this problem through/while flying is encouragement enough, so thanks for taking the time to comment.
I just completed my second hour in the air, and apart from feeling totally drained when I climbed out of the plane, it was another great experience. Crazy thing is, my instructor says I'm flying really well, and learning quickly and we even sampled a stall (intentionally!) today, which was fun. Covered effects of controls, climbs, descents, straight/level and going from clean to full flap and back again.
The only time I began to feel a bit off was when we were flying over geography I wasn't familiar with... I kept bollocking myself which seemed to help a bit (it's ok to tell yourself to pull yourself together.... it's just harder when someone else tells you to do it!).
I just completed my second hour in the air, and apart from feeling totally drained when I climbed out of the plane, it was another great experience. Crazy thing is, my instructor says I'm flying really well, and learning quickly
and we even sampled a stall (intentionally!) today, which was fun. Covered effects of controls, climbs, descents, straight/level and going from clean to full flap and back again.The only time I began to feel a bit off was when we were flying over geography I wasn't familiar with... I kept bollocking myself which seemed to help a bit (it's ok to tell yourself to pull yourself together.... it's just harder when someone else tells you to do it!).
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Have Fun :)
I’m learning in a C-42 too, it’s such nice friendly plane to fly, which helps with occasional bouts of anxiety I think.
If flying over unfamiliar terrain makes you feel uncomfortable try looking up the area on Google earth first. I did this often for a start to get familiar with the local area; I didn’t realise before I started flying just how narrow my view of the word had been as a car driver! It’s a different word up there and there no reason why the kind of things that bother you on the ground should affect you up there, enjoy
If flying over unfamiliar terrain makes you feel uncomfortable try looking up the area on Google earth first. I did this often for a start to get familiar with the local area; I didn’t realise before I started flying just how narrow my view of the word had been as a car driver! It’s a different word up there and there no reason why the kind of things that bother you on the ground should affect you up there, enjoy
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I'm have been a nervous flyer for over 50 years during which time I have flown commercially (as a passenger) all over the world - with sweaty hands etc. The recent AF incident does nothing to stop my fear of commercial flying.
Put me behind the yoke of a PA28 and all worries dissapear - I have flown over 300 hours GA, started when I was 63 and have just renewed my licence at 71.
But you still won't get me up in one of those big things!
Put me behind the yoke of a PA28 and all worries dissapear - I have flown over 300 hours GA, started when I was 63 and have just renewed my licence at 71.
But you still won't get me up in one of those big things!
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THIS or another older one
pretty much sum up the idiosyncracy of fears/anxiety but being on controls or aircraft is completely 'against the sense' of having such fears in ground or man-made structures.
Those talk of heights, but I think your case and so many of us, PPL or pro pilots regardless
I feel the same. Make me stand close to edge of high balcony, rooftop, bridge etc and I feel queasy. Flying with paraglider, glider or helicopter hundreds or over thousand metres up in the air, no probs.
As you yourself state, it's 'funny' mind trick.
I also noticed on myself that I recently became more sensitive to lateral movement during landing, while SLF in B737. Whether it's because I've flown more often recently and seeing the tragic aviation mishaps recent months, or just the fact that I've done lots of gliding training recently, leading to solo, makes me more aware of any movements. I'm not one of those who passengers who gasp and scream when experiencing low Gs on bumpy, thermal day in airliner.
Read those threads and maybe you'd find more yourself.
You don't have to read posts on 'private forum' to find folks experiencing this sort of feelings. Even professional pilots have their irrational feelings. Some heli pilots flying low-level or up to maybe 1000-1500' AGL feeling uncomfortable high up (where it's technically safer in case of engine failure, etc)
pretty much sum up the idiosyncracy of fears/anxiety but being on controls or aircraft is completely 'against the sense' of having such fears in ground or man-made structures.
Those talk of heights, but I think your case and so many of us, PPL or pro pilots regardless
I feel the same. Make me stand close to edge of high balcony, rooftop, bridge etc and I feel queasy. Flying with paraglider, glider or helicopter hundreds or over thousand metres up in the air, no probs.
As you yourself state, it's 'funny' mind trick.
I also noticed on myself that I recently became more sensitive to lateral movement during landing, while SLF in B737. Whether it's because I've flown more often recently and seeing the tragic aviation mishaps recent months, or just the fact that I've done lots of gliding training recently, leading to solo, makes me more aware of any movements. I'm not one of those who passengers who gasp and scream when experiencing low Gs on bumpy, thermal day in airliner.
Read those threads and maybe you'd find more yourself.
You don't have to read posts on 'private forum' to find folks experiencing this sort of feelings. Even professional pilots have their irrational feelings. Some heli pilots flying low-level or up to maybe 1000-1500' AGL feeling uncomfortable high up (where it's technically safer in case of engine failure, etc)
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Steve, there was a truly excellent 5 page article on pilot anxiety in the June 2006 issue of General Aviation - the AOPA magazine. It would be worth joining just for the back copy. It fully explains the contributing factors and how they can compound to incease the likelyhood of an attack - and of course how to keep it at bay. If AOPA cant help PM me. You clearly love flying so take those demons on!! Manfred
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Thank you all so much for replying - it's been great to get so much feedback. Clearly everyone's experience of anxiety is different, as we all have different triggers. I have various problems with social events etc, so a big part of my problem is basic self confidence - which I'm sure will be helped by learning to fly.
I'll see if I can get hold of that GA Magazine article from AOPA, Manfred, thanks - I'll have to see what the advantages are of joining. Funfly, what an inspiration - I've got time to learn yet, then ;-)
My first problem is the time between getting out of bed, and actually pulling back on the stick and getting airborne. My nerves build up for no real reason, so I have to try and have my lessons in the morning, as I find it hard to eat much until I fly, and if I wait until the afternoon I'd be so hungry I'd feel crap. The second problem is just plain old "I'm stuck in a box 3000ft in the air a long way from home" - which sometimes just hits me and I have to quickly check my thought patterns to keep it from distracting me.
I'm sure as time goes on I'll relax more. And I really hope there will be more. Every time I have flown, I get home and then a few hours later I'm already looking forward to my next mission
Stickandrudderman - C42's landing in trees - LOL... Got to love that aviation humour
I'll see if I can get hold of that GA Magazine article from AOPA, Manfred, thanks - I'll have to see what the advantages are of joining. Funfly, what an inspiration - I've got time to learn yet, then ;-)
My first problem is the time between getting out of bed, and actually pulling back on the stick and getting airborne. My nerves build up for no real reason, so I have to try and have my lessons in the morning, as I find it hard to eat much until I fly, and if I wait until the afternoon I'd be so hungry I'd feel crap. The second problem is just plain old "I'm stuck in a box 3000ft in the air a long way from home" - which sometimes just hits me and I have to quickly check my thought patterns to keep it from distracting me.
I'm sure as time goes on I'll relax more. And I really hope there will be more. Every time I have flown, I get home and then a few hours later I'm already looking forward to my next mission
Stickandrudderman - C42's landing in trees - LOL... Got to love that aviation humour
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Stickandrudderman - C42's landing in trees - LOL... Got to love that aviation humour
Back to thread, for phobias, exam nerves etc I usually suggest EFT - worked for me. (Emotional Freedom Techniques)
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Regarding that AOPA article, I wrote it. Thanks for the compliment Manfred.
I will post it on the internet sometime. In the meantime, if anyone wants me to email it to them, then send me a PM with your email address.
I will post it on the internet sometime. In the meantime, if anyone wants me to email it to them, then send me a PM with your email address.
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Just completed my third hour... another great time, despite starting to feel a bit groggy after an hour, I really look forward to my next lesson. Now completed the basics of turns, straight/level/climbing/descending. I'm not going to even mentioned the PAT APT thing as I "know" that has already been debated at length here. Suffice to say, we have a system that is efficient and doesn't stress the engine, or me!
After an hour my brain was starting to fog a bit due to fatigue (My anxiety just tires me out), so we skipped an overhead join, and rejoined downwind. I was really angry with myself for bottling it at the last minute, but I had enough beans left to fly the remainder of the pattern, and finals down to about 40 feet.
Really learnt a lot though, with checklists starting to stick in my mind, and did some RT (even taxied to fuel bay to fillerup). Instructor (not the same as first two flights due to holidays), assured me that my flying is fantastic for someone with just 3 hrs, which helped boost my confidence. I wobbled out of the plane and back to the briefing hut a happy, but very exhausted man.
Sorry to keep posting to this thread, but for anyone thinking of learning, then if I can do it despite agoraphobia and chronic fatigue, then anyone can... probably...
It's most bizare, but performing a dive at about Vne-20knotts didn't freak me out at all (those hedges really start getting big in the window!) - I was once again, more bothered about being out of my "patch" (agrophobia).
I'm really beginning to love pushing the aircraft this way and that, and it's starting to feel more natural. I'd love to plug my tutor/school as both instructors have been golden.
Let's see if I'm still smiling after steep turns and stalls/insipient spins
After an hour my brain was starting to fog a bit due to fatigue (My anxiety just tires me out), so we skipped an overhead join, and rejoined downwind. I was really angry with myself for bottling it at the last minute, but I had enough beans left to fly the remainder of the pattern, and finals down to about 40 feet.
Really learnt a lot though, with checklists starting to stick in my mind, and did some RT (even taxied to fuel bay to fillerup). Instructor (not the same as first two flights due to holidays), assured me that my flying is fantastic for someone with just 3 hrs, which helped boost my confidence. I wobbled out of the plane and back to the briefing hut a happy, but very exhausted man.
Sorry to keep posting to this thread, but for anyone thinking of learning, then if I can do it despite agoraphobia and chronic fatigue, then anyone can... probably...
It's most bizare, but performing a dive at about Vne-20knotts didn't freak me out at all (those hedges really start getting big in the window!) - I was once again, more bothered about being out of my "patch" (agrophobia).
I'm really beginning to love pushing the aircraft this way and that, and it's starting to feel more natural. I'd love to plug my tutor/school as both instructors have been golden.
Let's see if I'm still smiling after steep turns and stalls/insipient spins
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It can be a matter of one fear being greater than another.
I have always been utterly terrified if heights - standing on a chair to change a lightbulb sort of height. When I was in the Air Force one of the radars I had to work on was a Type 54, an old metric radar mounted on a 300' tower. One day the transmitter tripped out and I was not quick enough to get out of the way, so I was tasked to fix it. Now one doesn't say to a Flight Sergeant "sorry chief I'm frightened of heights", my fear of the consequencies of that was greater so up I went. The trip up in the open lift inside the open tower was agonising, but at least the transmitter room was closed so I could work OK. When it came to getting down however, the lift had gone back down and there was no-one to answer my frantic rings on the bell, so I had to climb down the ladder on the outside of the tower, focussing firmly on the rung in front of my nose and nothing else, trembling, sweating and nearly in tears with terror.
After that you'd think I could say to myself "if I can do that I can do anything" - but no, I still feel unhappy clinbing on a wing to enter a DA40.
I know its all in the mind, but it doesn't help!
I have always been utterly terrified if heights - standing on a chair to change a lightbulb sort of height. When I was in the Air Force one of the radars I had to work on was a Type 54, an old metric radar mounted on a 300' tower. One day the transmitter tripped out and I was not quick enough to get out of the way, so I was tasked to fix it. Now one doesn't say to a Flight Sergeant "sorry chief I'm frightened of heights", my fear of the consequencies of that was greater so up I went. The trip up in the open lift inside the open tower was agonising, but at least the transmitter room was closed so I could work OK. When it came to getting down however, the lift had gone back down and there was no-one to answer my frantic rings on the bell, so I had to climb down the ladder on the outside of the tower, focussing firmly on the rung in front of my nose and nothing else, trembling, sweating and nearly in tears with terror.
After that you'd think I could say to myself "if I can do that I can do anything" - but no, I still feel unhappy clinbing on a wing to enter a DA40.
I know its all in the mind, but it doesn't help!
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The title:
Anyone out there suffer anxiety/agoraphobia had me smiling, because if they had agoraphobia they wouldn't be 'out there' , would they?
All right, I'm going!
PS Good luck with overcoming your concerns, sandbagsteve: if you can do so then flying is one of the best pastimes there is!
Anyone out there suffer anxiety/agoraphobia had me smiling, because if they had agoraphobia they wouldn't be 'out there' , would they?
All right, I'm going!
PS Good luck with overcoming your concerns, sandbagsteve: if you can do so then flying is one of the best pastimes there is!
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Glad to hear things are going well sandbagsteve, (btw I love the username) please keep us posted.
In my case I have suffered mainly social anxiety, flying has helped big time with this as there is suddenly a whole load of people I know with a shared passion. Flying has also increased my confidence in general, and I know of at least two other pilots who have had there lives completely turned around for the better by flying. It's not just another hobby, it's something very, very special indeed
In my case I have suffered mainly social anxiety, flying has helped big time with this as there is suddenly a whole load of people I know with a shared passion. Flying has also increased my confidence in general, and I know of at least two other pilots who have had there lives completely turned around for the better by flying. It's not just another hobby, it's something very, very special indeed
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It is certainly special...
This week I actually flew twice, which is a big deal for me... now done 5 hrs and just need to nail stalls before looking at the circuit.
I have taken on the agoraphobia with a vengeance, and am following a support programme which now has me off all meds, and doing the mediation and self hypnosis thing, and it seems to be working... it's hard work to fight what has become learnt behaviour, but I'm getting there and am more determined than ever to realise my dream.
My 4th lesson was great, we were overflown by three tornado jets, nose on, a good couple of thousand feet above - very exciting! and again we got up above the scattered cloud/haze which was just fantastic.
Today, my 5th lesson covered climbing and descending turns, which we finished in time for a brief jolly sight seeing trip around some local nature spots before returning to the field for my first overhead join. Mr Instructor (you know who you are if you're reading this) talked me through the overhead join, and the RT. Very little wind meant that I was a little high at the turn to finals... I thought I'd be clever and try a bit of side slipping (I'd done it on my flight sim at home, but clearly had no idea how much HOOF was required), which entertained Mr Instructor no end, who briefly took control to demonstrate the required amount of HOOF and bank and we soon lost a couple of hundred feet, then he cleaned things up and let me fly down to the numbers for what felt like a nice touchdown on the main gear... job done... happy bunny!!!
I now climb out of the plane and my legs are no longer wobbly, and all I can think of is how soon I can afford my next mission!
A bacon butty then flying around in a near clear blue sky for an hour... you can't grumble for a friday morning!
This week I actually flew twice, which is a big deal for me... now done 5 hrs and just need to nail stalls before looking at the circuit.
I have taken on the agoraphobia with a vengeance, and am following a support programme which now has me off all meds, and doing the mediation and self hypnosis thing, and it seems to be working... it's hard work to fight what has become learnt behaviour, but I'm getting there and am more determined than ever to realise my dream.
My 4th lesson was great, we were overflown by three tornado jets, nose on, a good couple of thousand feet above - very exciting! and again we got up above the scattered cloud/haze which was just fantastic.
Today, my 5th lesson covered climbing and descending turns, which we finished in time for a brief jolly sight seeing trip around some local nature spots before returning to the field for my first overhead join. Mr Instructor (you know who you are if you're reading this) talked me through the overhead join, and the RT. Very little wind meant that I was a little high at the turn to finals... I thought I'd be clever and try a bit of side slipping (I'd done it on my flight sim at home, but clearly had no idea how much HOOF was required), which entertained Mr Instructor no end, who briefly took control to demonstrate the required amount of HOOF and bank and we soon lost a couple of hundred feet, then he cleaned things up and let me fly down to the numbers for what felt like a nice touchdown on the main gear... job done... happy bunny!!!
I now climb out of the plane and my legs are no longer wobbly, and all I can think of is how soon I can afford my next mission!
A bacon butty then flying around in a near clear blue sky for an hour... you can't grumble for a friday morning!