Are we too old?
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Are we too old?
I have just been reading a feature in AV8 Magazine which describes the world of UK GA in about 20 year's time. According to the article, there won't be any due to the lack of younger pilots coming into GA. It got me thinking...and it could be right!
I personally only know one pilot under the age of 40. Yes, I know there are younger ones out there (even 16 year olds) but they seem to be the exception. Looking around the flying club this weekend, I would say the average age of the pilots was 55-60. Now in 20 years, they will be 75-80 and almost certainly won't be flying, so does the article have a point? Where are all the GA pilots in their 20s and 30s? Where is the next generation of UK GA pilots coming from? Just out of curiosity, how old are the pilots on this forum? I would post a link to AV8 Magazine, but not sure if that's allowed, but it's free to view, so just google it.
Just for the record, I am a mere youngster at 45!
I personally only know one pilot under the age of 40. Yes, I know there are younger ones out there (even 16 year olds) but they seem to be the exception. Looking around the flying club this weekend, I would say the average age of the pilots was 55-60. Now in 20 years, they will be 75-80 and almost certainly won't be flying, so does the article have a point? Where are all the GA pilots in their 20s and 30s? Where is the next generation of UK GA pilots coming from? Just out of curiosity, how old are the pilots on this forum? I would post a link to AV8 Magazine, but not sure if that's allowed, but it's free to view, so just google it.
Just for the record, I am a mere youngster at 45!
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I am nearly sixty and have been flying for 27 years or so. There are certainly many ancient pilots around, and I agree that they tend to dominate the Club bar scene.
However, many people can only afford to learn to fly in middle age, and thus will always make up a large part of GA. When I and many of my ancient peers have hung up our headsets, there will be a further set of old cronies to follow along behind us, that's for sure...
However, many people can only afford to learn to fly in middle age, and thus will always make up a large part of GA. When I and many of my ancient peers have hung up our headsets, there will be a further set of old cronies to follow along behind us, that's for sure...
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Mmmmm...If you were to look on a GA forum (Flyer), you will see there are quite a few youngsters in PPL training, I'm 59 and grounded for medical reasons, but I really hope that GA will continue to grow.
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Talking to an Air France captain the other day, he said you only tend to see the very young (under 18s sort of thing) and then the very old (post-retirement) on the PPL/club/gliding scene. His theory was something to do with mortgages/cars/wives/work getting on the way in the 20-60 y.o. bracket 
So I can't really agree with the assertion that GA will disappear once the lot of you have croaked it (
) I reckon what is happening is people start training at a latter age, so what is possible is that the average/median age will stay about the same, but the experience level may drop.
So I can't really agree with the assertion that GA will disappear once the lot of you have croaked it (
) I reckon what is happening is people start training at a latter age, so what is possible is that the average/median age will stay about the same, but the experience level may drop.
I'm sure it's true. Personally I'd blame the high cost of living combined with the high cost of flying, and the inevitable pressures of being in your 20s.
The solution is almost certainly ways to fly which don't put too much pressure on either the wallet or the diary. To be frank, that eliminates most club rentals, and most gliding clubs.
It pretty much leaves big well run syndicates on modern aeroplanes, and the lower price-bracket microlights. But is anybody selling these to young PPLs and potential PPLs? Dunno.
G
The solution is almost certainly ways to fly which don't put too much pressure on either the wallet or the diary. To be frank, that eliminates most club rentals, and most gliding clubs.
It pretty much leaves big well run syndicates on modern aeroplanes, and the lower price-bracket microlights. But is anybody selling these to young PPLs and potential PPLs? Dunno.
G
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The demographics observation is certainly true. There are graphs in the back of Flight Training News (a free aviation trade rag) in every issue. I've just chucked out the last copy but the average age of a PPL holder is about 50. The CAA license issue data (on their website somewhere) confirms this, from how many licenses are issued to which age group.
No doubt, it is due to most people not having both time and money until later in life.
In my case, I started around age 42 but only after I got divorced - before then the wife would not have allowed it. 10 years later, I am about the youngest of the people I meet with.
The suggestion that the PPL scene will die out is a separate thing, and I don't think it will happen. I think the GA airfield scene will always be dominated by old codgers Like the cloud forming above a hill, in constant airflow, we will always have that age group being dominant.
I don't think flying has ever been cheaper than today, relative to the cost of living. It's not a hugely expensive hobby but it's not a cheap one either, and that cost will always select the participants pretty sharply by age and type. Look at the yachting community - similar. I wonder if sailing has as many Walter Mitty types though
While the median is clearly 50+, the age distribution (the standard deviation, if you like) is actually wider than most people think, when you look at the FTN graphs. I suspect the reason we see a rather narrower age group around airfields is because the younger ones don't hang around the "anorak scene" very much.
There have been many threads here over the years, on how to bring more "normal" people into GA.
It is a tough assignment. Improving the social scene (more young single women are badly needed) and improving the wreckage scene (the planes, I mean
) is what it will take. Plus decent club facilities, and allowing experienced pilots to hang around as mentors.
It's a catch-22 though. The business as a whole is not interested in turning out pilots; each school has a narrow business view of how much they can extract from each punter before he vanishes for good, and being businesses without any other mandate one can't blame them.
No doubt, it is due to most people not having both time and money until later in life.
In my case, I started around age 42 but only after I got divorced - before then the wife would not have allowed it. 10 years later, I am about the youngest of the people I meet with.
The suggestion that the PPL scene will die out is a separate thing, and I don't think it will happen. I think the GA airfield scene will always be dominated by old codgers
Like the cloud forming above a hill, in constant airflow, we will always have that age group being dominant.I don't think flying has ever been cheaper than today, relative to the cost of living. It's not a hugely expensive hobby but it's not a cheap one either, and that cost will always select the participants pretty sharply by age and type. Look at the yachting community - similar. I wonder if sailing has as many Walter Mitty types though
While the median is clearly 50+, the age distribution (the standard deviation, if you like) is actually wider than most people think, when you look at the FTN graphs. I suspect the reason we see a rather narrower age group around airfields is because the younger ones don't hang around the "anorak scene" very much.
There have been many threads here over the years, on how to bring more "normal" people into GA.
It is a tough assignment. Improving the social scene (more young single women are badly needed) and improving the wreckage scene (the planes, I mean
) is what it will take. Plus decent club facilities, and allowing experienced pilots to hang around as mentors.It's a catch-22 though. The business as a whole is not interested in turning out pilots; each school has a narrow business view of how much they can extract from each punter before he vanishes for good, and being businesses without any other mandate one can't blame them.
75.
Temporarily - I hope - lost my Class 1 medical for a CPL but will re-apply when the statutory 6 months has passed, tho not prepared to spend a lot of money jumping through too many hoops, but the Recreational Licence will probably be within my grasp, i.e. effectively a PPL to Microlight rules, one of which is only 1 passenger - I can live with that, covers most single engine 4 - seaters
Meanwhile medically fit to continue with the microlight licence - Microlight ? 100 hp. Rotax, variable pitch prop, retractable gear, 130 kts cruise, 4 hours endurance - now available with Glass Cockpit.
The GA scene at our club is almost extinct, not had an aeroplane for over a year. all the pilots running out of licence renewals and turning to microlights, and hey ! finding it fun. The present generation of microlights knock a lot of GA types into a cocked hat, and are affordable, in our case NZ$ 100 /hr ( approx GBP 40.oo ) and if a private owner around 20 litres an hour consumption at NZ$1.60/ ltr. ( approx GBP 65 pence )
Also, the microlight medical - basically the 75 yr. driver medical exam - has brought a lot of older pilots back out of the woodwork, my first student was 78, first learned tio fly when he was 10, but had been without a PPL medical for many years. At age 82 he flew his bride of 60 years - to the minute - over the Bay of Islands on their 60th wedding anniversary - magic.
Microlights also attract the youngsters, being affordable. Had one student start at 14, went solo on his 16th birthday, youngest pilot in NZ for a day.
Temporarily - I hope - lost my Class 1 medical for a CPL but will re-apply when the statutory 6 months has passed, tho not prepared to spend a lot of money jumping through too many hoops, but the Recreational Licence will probably be within my grasp, i.e. effectively a PPL to Microlight rules, one of which is only 1 passenger - I can live with that, covers most single engine 4 - seaters
Meanwhile medically fit to continue with the microlight licence - Microlight ? 100 hp. Rotax, variable pitch prop, retractable gear, 130 kts cruise, 4 hours endurance - now available with Glass Cockpit.
The GA scene at our club is almost extinct, not had an aeroplane for over a year. all the pilots running out of licence renewals and turning to microlights, and hey ! finding it fun. The present generation of microlights knock a lot of GA types into a cocked hat, and are affordable, in our case NZ$ 100 /hr ( approx GBP 40.oo ) and if a private owner around 20 litres an hour consumption at NZ$1.60/ ltr. ( approx GBP 65 pence )
Also, the microlight medical - basically the 75 yr. driver medical exam - has brought a lot of older pilots back out of the woodwork, my first student was 78, first learned tio fly when he was 10, but had been without a PPL medical for many years. At age 82 he flew his bride of 60 years - to the minute - over the Bay of Islands on their 60th wedding anniversary - magic.
Microlights also attract the youngsters, being affordable. Had one student start at 14, went solo on his 16th birthday, youngest pilot in NZ for a day.
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Im 26 and rattling through the PPL. There are plenty of younger ones flying even that I know of. I would have started younger but it is not until more recently that I have had enough spare cash to fund it.
Maybe the majority of younger pilots use GA as a a stepping stone to commercial flying hence the true GA pilots are older who have more time and money to do it as a "hobby"..?
Maybe the majority of younger pilots use GA as a a stepping stone to commercial flying hence the true GA pilots are older who have more time and money to do it as a "hobby"..?
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Liam...It's more than just a 'Hobby' it's an obsession, which I sadly miss, I keep in touch with GA by these forums, and it's nice to see the young ones doing what I did, I fulfilled an ambition in life, just sorry I can't continue it, enjoy your flying and make the most of it, I don't mean that sarcastically, I mean it sincerely. 
ExSp33db1rd...You're doing a grand job.
ExSp33db1rd...You're doing a grand job
.
Last edited by Lightning6; 27th Jul 2009 at 07:34.
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38 myself... learned to fly at 30.
I would agree:
1. those 25-45 too busy having and paying for children;
2. social life tends to revolve around work and/or children, not clubs;
3. when I do get out it's for a limited time: no time to hang around and chat at the club, just in, fly, home.
I certainly plan to spend more time flying when I have more money and fewer kids at home...
Tim
I would agree:
1. those 25-45 too busy having and paying for children;
2. social life tends to revolve around work and/or children, not clubs;
3. when I do get out it's for a limited time: no time to hang around and chat at the club, just in, fly, home.
I certainly plan to spend more time flying when I have more money and fewer kids at home...
Tim
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It would be interesting to see the statistics on the ages of new PPLs last year.
I learned to fly at 16 and got my licence at 17 and I hardly ever meet qualified pilots of my age. Flying is expensive but I'm certainly not rich - it just depends on what your priorities are (I'm only just learning to drive now).
Learner pilots would appear to be in 3 groups:
I learned to fly at 16 and got my licence at 17 and I hardly ever meet qualified pilots of my age. Flying is expensive but I'm certainly not rich - it just depends on what your priorities are (I'm only just learning to drive now).
Learner pilots would appear to be in 3 groups:
- Some Under 20 or early 20s
- Mainly 40-50 year olds
- And a few 60+ year olds
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Why do women have to be young and single? Whats wrong with women who are not single and/or not young? No wonder there are so few women in the GA / gliding world if yours is a typical attitude. The few young and possible single ones get far too much of the wrong sort of attention (from their PoV) and the older and/or not single ones usually get ignored.
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OK, fair enough; "old and single" would be a vast improvement over the present GA scene
However, looking at it from a business POV, there is no doubt that men with money to spend will spend it where there is an "interesting" social scene.
However, looking at it from a business POV, there is no doubt that men with money to spend will spend it where there is an "interesting" social scene.
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Take a look around, you will find the younger people in the microlight scene, basically because it is more affordable, better social scene and better gatherings etc.
In 20 years this is going to be the norm, and "cats five" there is also quite a few women flying microlights... always very welcome at our club.
Jon
In 20 years this is going to be the norm, and "cats five" there is also quite a few women flying microlights... always very welcome at our club.
Jon
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I setup forums for my flying club in an attempt to bring fellow students together and get to know each other. I figure we are all flying the same planes, may complete at roughly the same times and may want friendships in place in order to share fun and flying.
However, the site has had 5 registered members in as many months. Despite a big poster on the notice board in the club.
Speaking with the instructor it appears the majority of students are not as social as I thought.
Perhaps this fits with what's being said here. The majority of younger pilots only have the dosh available as they don't tend to socialise / spend vast sums in pubs n clubs.
If this is the case, do we get to see, hear about the younger hermit type pilots?
However, the site has had 5 registered members in as many months. Despite a big poster on the notice board in the club.
Speaking with the instructor it appears the majority of students are not as social as I thought.
Perhaps this fits with what's being said here. The majority of younger pilots only have the dosh available as they don't tend to socialise / spend vast sums in pubs n clubs.
If this is the case, do we get to see, hear about the younger hermit type pilots?
Last edited by Rodent1982; 27th Jul 2009 at 10:02.
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I think the forum community is a small chuck of GA.
Most normal people readily use the internet for all the normal stuff but don't spend time on forums
There is very likely a formula for making the GA scene more interesting but it is difficult to combine this with the current flying school business model.
A few years ago, I knew of one reasonably bright bloke who was aware of these issues and he said he would set up a school/club which had all the "right stuff", and he indeed did, but very soon it ended up just like all the others: a sausage factory with all the bent practices we read about.
Most normal people readily use the internet for all the normal stuff but don't spend time on forums
There is very likely a formula for making the GA scene more interesting but it is difficult to combine this with the current flying school business model.
A few years ago, I knew of one reasonably bright bloke who was aware of these issues and he said he would set up a school/club which had all the "right stuff", and he indeed did, but very soon it ended up just like all the others: a sausage factory with all the bent practices we read about.