Holding Altitude
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: UK
On my CPL it finally sunk in that it's well worth taking all the time you need to trim correctly, so you then don't have to make any adjustment for the remainder of your nav leg.
Even if it take 3-5 mins to get it set correctly, it's well worth it.
1) Select the attitude for level flight.
2) Hold that attitude - don't trim right away, just hold the force on the stick
3) CHECK - am I climbing or descending?
4) adjust as required, still holding on the stick. If you have adjusted, return to step 2.
5) trim very accurately.
Once you have the aircraft trimmed, the height really shouldn't vary by more than +/- 100' and you can easily return to your referance altitude as stated, by either easing the stick and accepting a brief speed change, or a slight adjustment of power. Once you are set back to your straight and level power/speed, you will be back in trim as you set before.
Make sure you follow the steps correctly, Don't trim as you alter the attitude, or you will be chasing the VSI for the whole nav leg, and then everything falls apart.
Even if it take 3-5 mins to get it set correctly, it's well worth it.
1) Select the attitude for level flight.
2) Hold that attitude - don't trim right away, just hold the force on the stick
3) CHECK - am I climbing or descending?
4) adjust as required, still holding on the stick. If you have adjusted, return to step 2.
5) trim very accurately.
Once you have the aircraft trimmed, the height really shouldn't vary by more than +/- 100' and you can easily return to your referance altitude as stated, by either easing the stick and accepting a brief speed change, or a slight adjustment of power. Once you are set back to your straight and level power/speed, you will be back in trim as you set before.
Make sure you follow the steps correctly, Don't trim as you alter the attitude, or you will be chasing the VSI for the whole nav leg, and then everything falls apart.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 779
Likes: 1
From: Kent UK
Tero, I'm at the same stage as you. Today I had a mock skills test which would have been a fail; mostly because of navigation errors but also with poor level-keeping. It was a very thermic day today and like you, I was popping up and down like a yo-yo, by 2-300 feet either way! 
Good luck on Tuesday, and may your airmasses be stable.
Good luck on Tuesday, and may your airmasses be stable.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
What airplane are you flying and is there slack in the trim system?
Back in the good ol' days used to fly an Arrow which was impossible to fly within a 100 feet of altitude due to play in the trim system.
It may not all be pilot error....
Back in the good ol' days used to fly an Arrow which was impossible to fly within a 100 feet of altitude due to play in the trim system.
It may not all be pilot error....
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: The laughing stock of the rest of the world!
If you are trimmed ok in calm air LEAVE IT, keep an eye on your VSI and ASI and 'Seat of the pants', correct straight away (using the stick/yoke) to maintain altitude and airspeed whilst keeping the wings level.... but to not lose too much altitude:-
1..Seat of the pants..you can feel whether you are going up or down.
2..Adjust accordingly checking your VSI and ASI ASAP
3..Forget about him/her in the RH seat, just fly the plane as if you were on your own.
4.. If you are in moderate to severe (unlikely) your examiner should take this into account.
1..Seat of the pants..you can feel whether you are going up or down.
2..Adjust accordingly checking your VSI and ASI ASAP
3..Forget about him/her in the RH seat, just fly the plane as if you were on your own.
4.. If you are in moderate to severe (unlikely) your examiner should take this into account.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
What airplane are you flying and is there slack in the trim system?
Most of my flying was on the PA38. Now flying a PA 28 which is easier to trim. I flew with my instructor yesterday, did some VOR tracking west of Brussels followed by steep turns and then some circuits and a panel exercise at Charleroi. Throughout the flight I was making a conscious effort to focus on power, attitude, trim and to incorporate an instrument scan at regular intervals. It was certainly better - not perfect - but I was staying within 100 feet of target altitude most of the time.
The plan is to fly a range of exercises today and tomorrow as revision before the test which is 3pm on Tuesday. I'm also thinking it might be a good idea to get a some circuits in a few hours before the test just to stay sharp. I'll post each day with an update.
Tero
Most of my flying was on the PA38. Now flying a PA 28 which is easier to trim. I flew with my instructor yesterday, did some VOR tracking west of Brussels followed by steep turns and then some circuits and a panel exercise at Charleroi. Throughout the flight I was making a conscious effort to focus on power, attitude, trim and to incorporate an instrument scan at regular intervals. It was certainly better - not perfect - but I was staying within 100 feet of target altitude most of the time.
The plan is to fly a range of exercises today and tomorrow as revision before the test which is 3pm on Tuesday. I'm also thinking it might be a good idea to get a some circuits in a few hours before the test just to stay sharp. I'll post each day with an update.
Tero
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Belgium
After a tiring few days of intensive practise I took the skills test yesterday and passed. I flew about six hours on Sunday and Monday with my instructor going over a range of exercises in preparation for the test and this strategy really paid off as I was in an aviation mindset by the time Tuesday came around.
In the morning I flew some solo circuits practising landings with various flap settings and speeds and then sat down to plan the Nav which the examiner had given to me the evening before. Once the planning was done it was then on to Mass and balance calculations, checking weather and notams etc. When the examiner arrived he reviewed my preparation and my documents then asked me some questions on the aircraft.
Weather was perfect with 26 degrees, blue sky and excellent visibility. Engine start, taxi and run up went without a hitch once we managed to offload the wasp buzzing around the cockpit who seemed determined to hitch a free ride. We started with some normal then precautionary circuits before moving on to a panel exercise overhead the field at 2500 feet. So far so good. We then flew to an area just south of Brussels to do some steep turns, stalls and unusual attitude recovery. In my opinion my performance was not as good as I would have liked. I completed the exercises correctly but just felt it was not as smooth as I had done before.
There was no time to dwell on this as he immediately directed me to Feluy to start the Nav. First leg was tracking the Affligem VOR for 22 miles making sure to stay below Brussels TMA. Overhead the VOR we turned west to Amougies which is a very small grass field and difficult to find. My track keeping was good until the end when I allowed the aircraft to veer off course as I was looking for the field. I could not see it and started to get worried until my examiner pointed out that it was directly below us - doh!.
Then south to find a road intersection at Peruwelz near the French border. This route follows a narrow corridor between Chievres AB CTR and Lille TMA but I found it easily. Then back to Charleroi with an entry point at Thuin, but a direct route would go too close Chievres and enter EBCI CTR before reaching Thuin. So I had planned a leg which would take me to a point over a wooded area just south west of the CTR and then a timed 1 minute leg before turning east to find Thuin.
On the way however we diverted to St Ghislain where we made a low approach. There was a feeling of relief when Thuin loomed on the horizon and ATC cleared us to join the downwind. Shut down 2 hours and 24 mins after start and the silence in the cockpit was deafening until the examiner turned to me and said 'lets go and get your paperwork in order so that you can get your license'.
At the debrief he pointed out some of my errors and items I need to work on with very constructive advice on how to avoid them. Next step is to tackle the paperwork mountain with the lovely people in Federal mobilite et transport and actually get the piece of paper after which I intend to have some fun flying some trips for the remainder of the summer. Then an aero course is something I would like to do just to experience the difference.
In the morning I flew some solo circuits practising landings with various flap settings and speeds and then sat down to plan the Nav which the examiner had given to me the evening before. Once the planning was done it was then on to Mass and balance calculations, checking weather and notams etc. When the examiner arrived he reviewed my preparation and my documents then asked me some questions on the aircraft.
Weather was perfect with 26 degrees, blue sky and excellent visibility. Engine start, taxi and run up went without a hitch once we managed to offload the wasp buzzing around the cockpit who seemed determined to hitch a free ride. We started with some normal then precautionary circuits before moving on to a panel exercise overhead the field at 2500 feet. So far so good. We then flew to an area just south of Brussels to do some steep turns, stalls and unusual attitude recovery. In my opinion my performance was not as good as I would have liked. I completed the exercises correctly but just felt it was not as smooth as I had done before.
There was no time to dwell on this as he immediately directed me to Feluy to start the Nav. First leg was tracking the Affligem VOR for 22 miles making sure to stay below Brussels TMA. Overhead the VOR we turned west to Amougies which is a very small grass field and difficult to find. My track keeping was good until the end when I allowed the aircraft to veer off course as I was looking for the field. I could not see it and started to get worried until my examiner pointed out that it was directly below us - doh!.
Then south to find a road intersection at Peruwelz near the French border. This route follows a narrow corridor between Chievres AB CTR and Lille TMA but I found it easily. Then back to Charleroi with an entry point at Thuin, but a direct route would go too close Chievres and enter EBCI CTR before reaching Thuin. So I had planned a leg which would take me to a point over a wooded area just south west of the CTR and then a timed 1 minute leg before turning east to find Thuin.
On the way however we diverted to St Ghislain where we made a low approach. There was a feeling of relief when Thuin loomed on the horizon and ATC cleared us to join the downwind. Shut down 2 hours and 24 mins after start and the silence in the cockpit was deafening until the examiner turned to me and said 'lets go and get your paperwork in order so that you can get your license'.
At the debrief he pointed out some of my errors and items I need to work on with very constructive advice on how to avoid them. Next step is to tackle the paperwork mountain with the lovely people in Federal mobilite et transport and actually get the piece of paper after which I intend to have some fun flying some trips for the remainder of the summer. Then an aero course is something I would like to do just to experience the difference.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Downwind
Thats great news! Very interesting to read how your flight went - not sure I would have done so well with a wasp in cockpit at the start!!
My day will come one day but thats a long way off for now but well done to you
My day will come one day but thats a long way off for now but well done to you
