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Joined: Jun 2006
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From: France & UK
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Sorry for the boring post, but can anyone explain how the dry rate works on a group aircraft??
Lets say i stick it up to tabs on the PA28, and only used and hour, the whole thing confuses me.
Thanks
VFR
Lets say i stick it up to tabs on the PA28, and only used and hour, the whole thing confuses me.
Thanks
VFR
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
That's one way to do it.
The other way, on more advanced planes, is to have a fuel totaliser (a device where you set the FOB - fuel on board - when you fill up; usually you set the max usable fuel and fill up accurately to the brim) and then there is accurate accounting for fuel used.
The renter is then invoiced for the airborne (or whatever) time, and gets a separate amount to pay for the fuel.
It's a very good system. I used to run it when I used to rent out the TB20. It's totally fair, and encourages correct engine management. I used to bill airborne time only too, which was even better because at about 2.5USG/hr idle flow rate the pilot has no incentive to do all the usual crazy engine revving and mad driving stunts on the ground which we see daily. The downside is that a crook (I had one or two such; one was an instructor) can mess with the FOB setting to make it look like he used less fuel.
The other way, on more advanced planes, is to have a fuel totaliser (a device where you set the FOB - fuel on board - when you fill up; usually you set the max usable fuel and fill up accurately to the brim) and then there is accurate accounting for fuel used.
The renter is then invoiced for the airborne (or whatever) time, and gets a separate amount to pay for the fuel.
It's a very good system. I used to run it when I used to rent out the TB20. It's totally fair, and encourages correct engine management. I used to bill airborne time only too, which was even better because at about 2.5USG/hr idle flow rate the pilot has no incentive to do all the usual crazy engine revving and mad driving stunts on the ground which we see daily. The downside is that a crook (I had one or two such; one was an instructor) can mess with the FOB setting to make it look like he used less fuel.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
What Rod1 describes is most normal for payments dry.
More normal in my experience however, is a wet rate, on hours/hobbs/tacho (depending upon syndicate), with local fuel charged directly to the syndicate, and receipted fuel bought elsewhere taken off the bill.
Ultimately however, no two syndicates are identical, so if you're planning to join one - look at the rules, then chat to somebody about how that syndicate actually interpret their own rules.
G
More normal in my experience however, is a wet rate, on hours/hobbs/tacho (depending upon syndicate), with local fuel charged directly to the syndicate, and receipted fuel bought elsewhere taken off the bill.
Ultimately however, no two syndicates are identical, so if you're planning to join one - look at the rules, then chat to somebody about how that syndicate actually interpret their own rules.
G
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
There are loads of syndicates at Popham doing that sort of thing, on your doorstep and easy to ask around.
G
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
The aircraft is always left with the same fuel level for the next member.
Furthermore, you end up refueling at least once per flight. Even though the tanks might hold sufficient fuel for four local flights before refueling would actually be needed.
A "wet" hire rate as Ghengis suggested is far easier to implement. My club actually pays back fuel bought elsewhere *at the home base rates*. This allows the club to forecast fuel costs easier (since all fuel costs the club the same) and encourages the hirer to shop around: the hirer pockets the difference.
Disadvantage of a "wet" hire rate is of course in any case that it doesn't encourage the hirer to apply proper engine management. Leaning, most of all.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
I used to be in one such group which operated a Piper Dakota. The rule was to leave the aeroplane on Tabs, which was fair enough as this allowed for decent range and loading. The next person could always add fuel. Got a bit more complicated when we had the TB10, this had to be left full which in turn could have lead to problems with W&B.
Our group now operates a Wet rate. Any fuel bought away from base is refunded from the hourly costs and we have an account at the airfield that any of us can use. Much better way to do it as it doesn't matter how much fuel is left in the tanks
Our group now operates a Wet rate. Any fuel bought away from base is refunded from the hourly costs and we have an account at the airfield that any of us can use. Much better way to do it as it doesn't matter how much fuel is left in the tanks
