Any tips on Flying EGSF to EDHS
Have I misunderstood as you imply a charge for aircraft less than 2mt?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BP,
Thanks for the info. I do hope FA doesn't get a 'Dear FA invoice' in the mail ? - let's hope not.
In your experience what do you think a SA Bulldog MTOW 1066Kg would attract at Rotterdam assuming a one touch landing , noise cert etc?.
Actually, the 'Outlaws' are staying with me here in the UK as we speak so the possibility of flying my MOL back to Rotterdam early is looking very appealing. She always seems to be infront of my 'direct flight' to my drinks cabinet at all times of the day and wants to reorganise my entire household. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllppppppppppppp.
VBR
Big Sand
Thanks for the info. I do hope FA doesn't get a 'Dear FA invoice' in the mail ? - let's hope not.
In your experience what do you think a SA Bulldog MTOW 1066Kg would attract at Rotterdam assuming a one touch landing , noise cert etc?.
Actually, the 'Outlaws' are staying with me here in the UK as we speak so the possibility of flying my MOL back to Rotterdam early is looking very appealing. She always seems to be infront of my 'direct flight' to my drinks cabinet at all times of the day and wants to reorganise my entire household. Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllppppppppppppp.
VBR
Big Sand
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FA,
Talking of 'Bills in the post' get this one. I parked at a service area adjacent to East Mids in the A8 for just over an hour whilst I had a 'courtesy break' (I think the Americans call it?) and a meeting with a customer in the Service area.
About a week later I get a bill in the post saying that the Camera at the parking area noted that I was 10mins over the 2 'free hrs' allowed.
'Whatever' I hear you say. Well, that will be £70 Sterling mate or we take your left Kidney and see you in court.
So, I guess the moral of the story is. Rotterdam even with a Dear FA letter sounds better than a East Mids services £5 Medio Americano and a £70 FU letter later?
A trip to Rotterdam to drop my Mother-In -Law off early sounds like a good deal?!
Big Sand
Talking of 'Bills in the post' get this one. I parked at a service area adjacent to East Mids in the A8 for just over an hour whilst I had a 'courtesy break' (I think the Americans call it?) and a meeting with a customer in the Service area.
About a week later I get a bill in the post saying that the Camera at the parking area noted that I was 10mins over the 2 'free hrs' allowed.
'Whatever' I hear you say. Well, that will be £70 Sterling mate or we take your left Kidney and see you in court.
So, I guess the moral of the story is. Rotterdam even with a Dear FA letter sounds better than a East Mids services £5 Medio Americano and a £70 FU letter later?
A trip to Rotterdam to drop my Mother-In -Law off early sounds like a good deal?!
Big Sand
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, you'd better ask Fuji. As I said earlier, at my club we get a discount on the airport landing fee, we get charged an average for the Eurocontrol terminal charges and we do our own handling for free. That, in total, comes down to a hair under 20 euros per landing.
In Fujis case, for a Cirrus, he paid 26 euros in landing, probably around 10 euros for the Eurocontrol terminal charges, and something like 20 euros handling to my club. That's around 56 euros all told.
The one thing you need to be aware of is that my club is not an "official" handler at Rotterdam. The official handlers, Aviapartner and KLM Jet Center, would charge somewhere in the neighbourhood of 90-120 euros for a light single. Until Fuji said he'd been handled by the club, I didn't even know that this was possible. And in any case, taxiway L, which leads to our little out-of-the-way apron, is not suitable for wingspans much larger than that of a PA-28 or C172. So it's by no means guaranteed that you can get handling from the club too, and what the fee would be for that.
Of course you have to weigh that against having your MOL stay around for much longer.
In Fujis case, for a Cirrus, he paid 26 euros in landing, probably around 10 euros for the Eurocontrol terminal charges, and something like 20 euros handling to my club. That's around 56 euros all told.
The one thing you need to be aware of is that my club is not an "official" handler at Rotterdam. The official handlers, Aviapartner and KLM Jet Center, would charge somewhere in the neighbourhood of 90-120 euros for a light single. Until Fuji said he'd been handled by the club, I didn't even know that this was possible. And in any case, taxiway L, which leads to our little out-of-the-way apron, is not suitable for wingspans much larger than that of a PA-28 or C172. So it's by no means guaranteed that you can get handling from the club too, and what the fee would be for that.
Of course you have to weigh that against having your MOL stay around for much longer.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Fujis case, for a Cirrus, he paid 26 euros in landing, probably around 10 euros for the Eurocontrol terminal charges, and something like 20 euros handling to my club. That's around 56 euros all told.
As to fees, I paid 26E all in and however the fee was split and whoever got a share that was the total cost. It sounds like I may get a fee from Eurocontrol not for on route charges from which I was exempt on the grounds of weight but because Rotterdam is one of the specified airports for terminal charges. So far nothing has turned up but even if it does I am certainly not going to object to an overall 40E.
I would add on the day I was there Rotterdam was remarkably quite - I really do think if there has been a change in policy this is quite right because clearly they should encourage GA as another income stream
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BP,
Cheers. To summarise the picture is not crystal clear regarding Rotterdam but on a 'good day' and without official handling the charges are pretty reasonable considering the proximity for me for Rotterdam. That said Transavia do a schedule flight out of Luton to Rotterdam that takes abot 50mins and costs about E50.00 so I dare say that put's the whole thing into perspective.
Let's face it though - owning an operating a light aircraft never made 'commercial sense' but it's such bloody good fun and a real privilidge.
BP & FA thanks again for all you kind feedback.
VBR
Big Sand
Cheers. To summarise the picture is not crystal clear regarding Rotterdam but on a 'good day' and without official handling the charges are pretty reasonable considering the proximity for me for Rotterdam. That said Transavia do a schedule flight out of Luton to Rotterdam that takes abot 50mins and costs about E50.00 so I dare say that put's the whole thing into perspective.
Let's face it though - owning an operating a light aircraft never made 'commercial sense' but it's such bloody good fun and a real privilidge.
BP & FA thanks again for all you kind feedback.
VBR
Big Sand
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BP - look sorry to be a pain, but it really is not that complicated. If you want to go to Rotterdam give the Club a call, they will tell you the fee and whether they will "handle" you. If you want to go - go. You may get caught for a terminal charge, but all in it really is a bargain for a "big" airport.
As you say it is almost always going to be cheaper to fly commercially.
On the other hand I got to the airport and was airborn in 15 minutes, just over an hour en route and I was in Rotterdam. No pesky airport terminals, just the dedicated services of the customs man who turned up at the club in his jeep for a quick peep of our passports, arrived back at the airport when it suited me and was off the ground and back in England in just over an hour. All in all thats two and a half hours travel time, and I guess no more than 40 minutes at both airports in total. Oh, and we even had in flight refreshments. Thats why we do it .. .. .. I think.
If you have got time on your hands and the money matters go scheduled! It has been, and probably always will be, that way.
As you say it is almost always going to be cheaper to fly commercially.
On the other hand I got to the airport and was airborn in 15 minutes, just over an hour en route and I was in Rotterdam. No pesky airport terminals, just the dedicated services of the customs man who turned up at the club in his jeep for a quick peep of our passports, arrived back at the airport when it suited me and was off the ground and back in England in just over an hour. All in all thats two and a half hours travel time, and I guess no more than 40 minutes at both airports in total. Oh, and we even had in flight refreshments. Thats why we do it .. .. .. I think.
If you have got time on your hands and the money matters go scheduled! It has been, and probably always will be, that way.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EGSf (Peterbrough) - EGHS (Stade, Hamburg) Done
Dear Aviators,
May I and my wing man thank all of you who responded on our plan to fly from Peterbrough - Strade (Germany).
We succesfully completed the trip in Aug and without a hitch thanks to good planning and good up to the minute Wx info.
We did the trip in a 2 ship formation of Bulldogs and took turns in leading each leg of the journey.
Day 1 one we flew EGSF via DET, LDD , Boulogne harbour to LFAT.
Day 2 LFAT - EDLN via BNN VOR and between the Brussels and Antwerp zones to Monchengladbach
Day 3 EDLN - HMM - OSN - EGSH (Stade). We refuelled at EDXQ (Rotenburg) as Stade had no AVGAS.
So what did we learn from the trip?
The Transit from LFAT to Monchengladbach is tricky but obviously 'do able'. Max alt 1500ft means good vis is essential. If you think the Manchester low level corridor is busy then try this.That said don't let it put you off!
A word of caution. Be careful on the Kokseide restricted areas on the way from LFAT via the BNE VOR North. Lille FIS will want to know you are aware of these and for good reason. Take a careful look at the route before flying it.
The FIS services along the route and particularly in Germany were excellent and do speak excellent English. Remember at low altitudes your radio may be less effective so speak clearly and in plain English - these guys (and gals) want to help and are happy you call!
Thanks to all from PPrune that gave helpful advice and tips before our trip. We were well prepared and whilst we were never treated to a ramp check we were prepared in case we got one. There's a big friendly GA Europe out there if it's well planned for and is treated with due respect. We are well trained in the UK and certainly on frequency the Brits on the whole executed their calls amongst the best we heard.
If you are thinking about a European trip - live the dream. It's very GA friendly and with good planning a trip of a life time.
PS: When re entering the UK remember the Customs form as well as your flight plan.
Thankfully our PPR to our home airfield reminded us!
Happy and safe flying
Big Sand
May I and my wing man thank all of you who responded on our plan to fly from Peterbrough - Strade (Germany).
We succesfully completed the trip in Aug and without a hitch thanks to good planning and good up to the minute Wx info.
We did the trip in a 2 ship formation of Bulldogs and took turns in leading each leg of the journey.
Day 1 one we flew EGSF via DET, LDD , Boulogne harbour to LFAT.
Day 2 LFAT - EDLN via BNN VOR and between the Brussels and Antwerp zones to Monchengladbach
Day 3 EDLN - HMM - OSN - EGSH (Stade). We refuelled at EDXQ (Rotenburg) as Stade had no AVGAS.
So what did we learn from the trip?
- Buy current maps and airfield guides.
- Plan well ahead.
- Plan your fuel and diversions. Boring but vital!
- PPR
- Have access to up to the minute Weather info - use it and don't second guess it.
- Enjoy the journey.
The Transit from LFAT to Monchengladbach is tricky but obviously 'do able'. Max alt 1500ft means good vis is essential. If you think the Manchester low level corridor is busy then try this.That said don't let it put you off!
A word of caution. Be careful on the Kokseide restricted areas on the way from LFAT via the BNE VOR North. Lille FIS will want to know you are aware of these and for good reason. Take a careful look at the route before flying it.
The FIS services along the route and particularly in Germany were excellent and do speak excellent English. Remember at low altitudes your radio may be less effective so speak clearly and in plain English - these guys (and gals) want to help and are happy you call!
Thanks to all from PPrune that gave helpful advice and tips before our trip. We were well prepared and whilst we were never treated to a ramp check we were prepared in case we got one. There's a big friendly GA Europe out there if it's well planned for and is treated with due respect. We are well trained in the UK and certainly on frequency the Brits on the whole executed their calls amongst the best we heard.
If you are thinking about a European trip - live the dream. It's very GA friendly and with good planning a trip of a life time.
PS: When re entering the UK remember the Customs form as well as your flight plan.
Thankfully our PPR to our home airfield reminded us!Happy and safe flying
Big Sand
