Cost of JAA PPL in the UK

[tomboo]

I did it in Floridashire in Americaland last Jan, as I can't commit to regular weekly lessons. My finances came out like this;

Training $9007 £5,552
Visa Phone Call !! £9.24
Visa $140 £89.91
Servis $200 £123.30
Deposit $500 £325.67
Medical £130.00
US Medical $60 £36.99
TSA $130 £80.40
Flights £471.30
Insurance £47.25
Licence £180.50
Exams 7 x 35 £245.00
Books £350.00
Living USA $1649 £1,016.00

TOTAL £8,658

[P4UL B]

Thanks for the info and tips, i guess with the current climate and the prices of food and petrol etc it all effects opportunities available to certain people.

for me im in the south east of england and the nearest airports for me would be shoreham aiport and biggin hill which is roughly an hour away.

they seem to have academys where you fly 5 days a week, 9-5 so intense which maybe would be better for me as im a quick learner and intense may keep me very focused but seems alot of payments up front.

my aim would ideally be pilot as a career, hobbie also sounds nice as i get older but still expensive,

so action plan i guess would be to build up the finances for ppl and once i achieve that what would be the next step? is it commercial licence and whats the chance of airlines funding you to do this as so expensive and then in return you fly for them i guess.

or do i need to be from a "certain background/pedigree" so to speak i hope not.i done well at school and went to college and im 26! i dont go out and spend money socialising already.

fattony:
you mentioned a second job, but when you get time to do your flying? did you sign up with an airport for the ppl and just took the lessons etc when you could like learning to drive until youve done enough, or was there a certain time frame?

thing:
theres a gliding club about 20-25mins from where i live, i see them glide on good weather days and looks fun, and obviously helped you when you decided to go for your ppl, but would it be better value wise to go from the beginning in powered planes long term because i would then need to upgrade sometime to powered planes?

if any one can continue some more helpful advice and positive comments would be much appreciated.

as i say f i spent £8000-£10000 on ppl which for me is quite alot, i would have to some how make a career out of it one day to progress further and continue flying unless i get a high paid job, im just a sports massage therapist still trying to build up my client base.

[thing]

First of all, powered flying is not an 'upgrade' from gliding, some would say it's the other way around! The only upgrade is price. It certainly helped me when I did my PPL, you already (should) have airmanship, know the controls and effects thereof, know how to navigate with a map and compass and every landing is a power off one...so you get used to getting it right first time and every time because there's no second go. You're also just used to flying and what stuff looks like from above

Pesonally and I've said this before, I think everyone going into flying should at least solo on a glider first, much as I think everyone learning to drive should first do so on a motorbyke. I don't think you would regret giving it a go, and obviously as your funds become more disposable then you can think about doing powered as well.

[fattony]

I made the suggestion about a second job because, from your first post, it sounded like you were finding it difficult to get the money together for the PPL. Personally, I just have the one job. I'm fortunate enough to be able to work flexibly so I can fly during the week. It sounds like you may be able to fly during the week too by fitting it in around your sports therapy work. You could then get an evening job as few people fly in the evening anyway.

I'm flying with a not-for-profit club rather than a commercial flying school. You could do the 9-5 intensive course, probably with a flying school, but you'd probably need to have the money saved in advance as you'd burn through it pretty quickly. I started about nine months ago and, as I'm averaging an hour a week, I've yet to get my licence.

they seem to have academys where you fly 5 days a week, 9-5 so intense which maybe would be better for me as im a quick learner and intense may keep me very focused but seems alot of payments up front.

I'm not sure exactly what you meant but just to say that many people would caution against making any payments up front. You may get a better price that way but flying schools seems to have a habit of going under, taking your money with them.

spent £8000-£10000 on ppl which for me is quite alot

It's quite a lot of money for most people, me included!

[Flying_Anorak]

Can I just endorse 100% what 'Thing' said above, as I come from a gliding background (As-Cat Instructor, 22 years gliding) and have just started an NPPL SSEA with a view to hopefully ending up with an EASA LAPL (A), (S) & TMG in a few years time.

I always wanted to fly power but after a few flights with friends etc, I found it a bit expensive and to be honest boring, and after having tried gliding, I found it gave me much more. I now want to end up with the best of both worlds, so have taken the plunge.

I honestly do think that gliding is a great foundation for further pilot training and when recently we've had a few would be ATPL's from a nearby Oxfordshire training establishment pop in for a go, we've made sure that they get to experience flight in all parts of the envelope especially stalling and spinning. Personally I find it terrifying these days that someone can end up in the LHS of an airliner without ever actually having experienced a spin....!! As recent well publicised events have shown, the core handling skills you learn in a year or so spent gliding serve you well later!

Just my tuppence worth...

[Mickey Kaye]

I did some gliding as a kid and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I also fancied doing a little more around my instructing job and I guess I might spend a dozen days a year in total.

However the cost of membership was ridiculous

£261.00 (+ £30.00 joining fee)

So I didn't bother

Its only 55 quid membership at my fixed wing base and that gives your reciprocal landings at about 10 other fields.

[tggzzz]

I did some gliding as a kid and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also fancied doing a little more around my instructing job and I guess I might spend a dozen days a year in total.

However the cost of membership was ridiculous £261.00 (+ £30.00 joining fee). Its only 55 quid membership at my fixed wing base and that gives your reciprocal landings at about 10 other fields.

Is that the right calculation? Surely the relevant figure would be the cost of flying+membership+driving+time for a year.

If you are only interested in a few flights per year, many clubs offer a much cheaper "associate membership".

[shortstripper]

I'd also recommend the gliding route - and as value for money too!

Many gliding clubs do intensive courses to get you solo. The cost of such training is great value for money! A PPL isn't simply a set number of hours; The 45 hours or whatever it is now, is just the minimum. Most people need more, so the experience gained from gliding will probably shave time off the amount of power flying needed to satisfy the standard.

My gliding experience halved the time I needed to qualify and I'd go as far as to say it onced saved my life (or at the very least, a smashed aeroplane)!

SS

[oldspool]

The 'other' cost you need to consider is the ongoing cost of flying post licence. Many don't, and you tend to see a high % of lapsed licences/ratings in the first couple of years. Even a cheap £6K course will look like money down the toilet at that point.

[P4UL B]

Thanks for all your advice.

So the gliding route sounds a great start, i looked on my local gliding club and there so many fees, most i dont understand yet as im new.

whats recommended? get a one off trial lesson? what sort of price is reasonable for that? is it me going for a ride or instruction on the basics etc?

and what oldspool: mentioned about post licence is my exact concern. what would be my next route and possibility of moving on to a job as a pilot and help funding because the commercial route i looked up is around the £60,000 mark. There is not a hope in hell me personally ever being able to afford that or is what i read incorrect.

[Mickey Kaye]

I would love to do a bit of gliding again - say a dozen days a year. But the membership fees for the 3 closest clubs to me are

1. £200 plus BGA membership
2. £261.00 + £30.00 joining fee
3. £295

And I am simply not prepared to pay that amount especially when its only 55 quid at one of the local fixed wing school and that gives you free reciprocal landings at about 10 airfields.

[Alan_D]

i would have to some how make a career out of it one day to progress further and continue flying unless i get a high paid job

No-one seems to have mentioned the additional costs to make a career out of flying.
With just a PPL you can't be paid to fly, you need a commercial licence for that.
And if you want to fly 'big stuff' you need an ATPL. And an IR, a multi-engine rating, night rating and a load of other stuff i've forgotten.

Someone will be able to confirm the overall costs but my understanding is the total from start to finish is in the region of £60-100k - with no guarentee of a job at the end .

[shortstripper]

The context of gliding value for money in this context was in relation to the OP's question on the cost of gaining a PPL.

Gliding club value for money if you only intend to do a bit every now and then is obviously a different matter. The high club membership is a reflection of the costs involved in running a gliding club compared to a flying school. Most gliding clubs own or rent their own whole airfield (expensive compared to a flying school) and do not charge landing fees ect. Flying schools usually recoupe costs from flying charges, whereas gliding clubs spread most of their fixed costs umungst the membership, hence the higher membership fees.

So not really a fair comparison.

SS

[Mickey Kaye]

"With just a PPL you can't be paid to fly"

But come this april you will be able to.

[oldspool]

"With just a PPL you can't be paid to fly"

But come this april you will be able to.

You're talking about a small exception case (PPL holders with an Instructor Rating), but I can't imagine there will be many of them because you will still need to meet the CPL theoretical requirements and have received 10 hours instrument instruction in order to commence an FI-R course. So more often than not these people will be CPL holders.

I'd imagine that, other than a handful of exceptions, the only PPLs that are going to receive payment post April are those BCPL (with an FI rating) holders who's licences automatically become a PPL under EASA.

[P4UL B]

So Basically people either get to achieve their ppl and fly as a hobby even though expensive and thats it.

and no chance of becoming a paid pilot unless i win the lottery or be fortunate enough to come from a well off background, which i dont.

or i would have to have such a high paid job to fund all the required licences that i prob wouldnt even have any time to learn to fly because i would need to work all the time.

well its a bit of a de-motivator to even start now as always wanted from young.

[shortstripper]

Well I learnt to fly in the 80's as a farm labourer (not exactly well paid). I'm not much better off now, but still manage to fly on and off (some years a lot, other years a little). It's a hobby but there are ways to make it cheaper. I guess it's a case of how much you want it really to do it!

SS

[thing]

As shortstripper says, and as I said in a previous post, it depends how badly you want it. When I was your age I could only afford to glide (which I was more than happy with anyway) and you're a young chap feeling a bit down because you haven't got the 80K for an APTL. I haven't got 80K for an APTL either.

I know a guy who drives a digger who has gained his chopper license. He's been chopper mad all his life and he made tremendous sacrifices to achieve his dream. He's happy as a pig in plop.

Pal of mine flies 747's, in fact his brother, his girlfriend and his son are all airline pilots, they all had to work for it, his dad used to cycle 20 odd miles a day to the airfield when he did his PPL, and then 20 odd back again come rain or snow. It's not handed to you on a plate.

If you want to fly badly enough, you will.

[hobbit1983]

So Basically people either get to achieve their ppl and fly as a hobby even though expensive and thats it.

and no chance of becoming a paid pilot unless i win the lottery or be fortunate enough to come from a well off background, which i dont.

or i would have to have such a high paid job to fund all the required licences that i prob wouldnt even have any time to learn to fly because i would need to work all the time.

well its a bit of a de-motivator to even start now as always wanted from young.

Not true. Start here Flying Scholarships - GAPAN and keep looking.

[thing]

So I would offer that an alternate route for a young guy is to work hard to emigrate from Europe

Absolutely. If you're ambitious enough go abroad. My son emigrated to Oz in 2005 and his life has improved by a quantum leap. Beautiful house, huge salary, all because they recognise talent in Oz instead of trying to bury it like they do here. Trying to get on in UK plc is like wading through treacle.

He came back for his first visit last year and he said it would be his last. It reminded him of why he left in the first place. Which I thought was worth the trip in itself personally.