White Waltham
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I fly for a living, have done so for 32 years now; it's my present company uniform and I was on duty. No-one objected or even mentioned it. If they had, as a paying visitor I would have told them where to stick the club's unwritten rules, as any reasonable person would, especially in the circumstances.
I repeat again - the issue on the day was that my passenger strongly objected to the way he was treated on arrival. He didn't go to use the club or its facilities (nor did I), merely to get to a further destination.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I still don't understand the mystery that surrounds the scandelous way your paying passenger was treated. What happened - spill the beans please? Otherwise we'll just have to assume that your SLF was caught dogging in the carpark....
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
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PP,
Thanks; we do go to EGLL too. Quite a bit cheaper than EGLW. Strangely enough, a previous uniform was an orange flying coverall with a crown on it. That is, when we weren't wearing the dark blue ones.
There's no mystery about anything and no scandal.
Thanks; we do go to EGLL too. Quite a bit cheaper than EGLW. Strangely enough, a previous uniform was an orange flying coverall with a crown on it. That is, when we weren't wearing the dark blue ones.
There's no mystery about anything and no scandal.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Zulu Alpha
If anyone from WW is still reading this, WB is a good lad, he loves aeros and has been known to buy people drinks... so let him in.
We decided not to risk going to WW and had our lunch at a Pub by the Thames in Windsor instead. I will try flying in at some point as I have long wanted to visit
Oh, almost forgot, if you are an Aero-ist and want Flying clothing sans eppoulettes I may know someone who can help
I do wish you dim civvies would learn that an 'epaulette' is the loop of cloth on uniform shirts or flying overalls upon which rank slides - the things (often with various gold bars) which seem to cause you so much angst - are worn.
Either one wears a uniform or one does not. Removal of uniform rank slides in order to avoid causing alleged offence to a few Golf Alfa Good Morning poseurs in a flying club bar is plain daft - far better to change into off-duty clothes altogether, surely?
Either one wears a uniform or one does not. Removal of uniform rank slides in order to avoid causing alleged offence to a few Golf Alfa Good Morning poseurs in a flying club bar is plain daft - far better to change into off-duty clothes altogether, surely?
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I do wish you dim civvies would learn that an 'epaulette' is the loop of cloth on uniform shirts or flying overalls upon which rank slides - the things (often with various gold bars) which seem to cause you so much angst - are worn.
Either one wears a uniform or one does not. Removal of uniform rank slides in order to avoid causing alleged offence to a few Golf Alfa Good Morning poseurs in a flying club bar is plain daft - far better to change into off-duty clothes altogether, surely?
Either one wears a uniform or one does not. Removal of uniform rank slides in order to avoid causing alleged offence to a few Golf Alfa Good Morning poseurs in a flying club bar is plain daft - far better to change into off-duty clothes altogether, surely?
I rest my case. He could have someone's eye out with that sword, if they hadn't already been blinded by the sunlight reflecting from the bling.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I was wearing epaulettes, but to no consequence.
If you were a passing Nigel (or Walter Mitty), who wandered in wearing full regalia, the round would follow as surely as night follows day.
Avoid imitations
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It wasn't me who brought that subject up, I merely responded to the implied criticism.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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[QUOTE]I do wish you dim civvies would learn that an 'epaulette' is the loop of cloth on uniform shirts or flying overalls [QUOTE]
Great one! Nice.... Well done BEagle.
Being a thick civvy I feel too inferior to mention that the word "epaulets" simply means "shoulders".
Won't be taking it too literally when I walk into the bar, I'm not so tight as to go lopping off both arms to avoid buying a round.
Great one! Nice.... Well done BEagle.
Being a thick civvy I feel too inferior to mention that the word "epaulets" simply means "shoulders".
Won't be taking it too literally when I walk into the bar, I'm not so tight as to go lopping off both arms to avoid buying a round.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Bryn the Sheepdog has moved...
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3844...pdog-wlac.html
Feel free to continue the discussion in a more relaxed environment!
SD
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/3844...pdog-wlac.html
Feel free to continue the discussion in a more relaxed environment!
SD
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I prop up the bar most evenings at Waltham. The clubhouse is great, best in the world, but the way the club is run gets worse and worse. In charge is the wife of the owner, and she has no interest in aviation. She has employed a man as her manager who seems afraid to talk to people on a social basis, and between them they are dragging the club down to a trough of mire. Most of the people who work there are trying to leave (at least the ones who chat to us mortals - the management don't afford us that respect).A ground crew lad is off after a year, saying he can't afford to live on the money and put up with the lack of motivation from management, as well as the insults from the owner. He reckons that for a 180 hour month he takes home about £900. Everyone who works as ground crew, operations or in the membership areas is actively looking for jobs away from Waltham. In a customer service operation, everyone who works there is demotivated and insulted by the woman running the place. They will be recruiting for staff soon and obviously a job is better than no job, but the whole set up is bad. One of the wheezes they pull is that when the weather is bad, they send staff home without paying them. Sure it's against the law, but what kind of ethics does a company have when they are paying staff less than £6 an hour anyway.
So don't be surprised by a poor Waltham welcome. Although you want to get in, most of them want to get out.
So don't be surprised by a poor Waltham welcome. Although you want to get in, most of them want to get out.
Join Date: Sep 2010
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These items posted about White Waltham sum up this most loveable of airfields to a tee. There are the members who hotly defend the place, and visitors, some of whom are warm in affection and others who have had a cool reception. It is a club; it does not offer good handling facilities of the type hoped for by Shy Torque, and the service and welcome can be excellent or poor.
I remember talking to Shy Torque before his departure, and he revealed the extent of the poor service he received. It was the sort of service which eHarding and Gorilla would find nothing wrong with, because they are using the club as a social facility, and would think nothing of traipsing though longish wet grass. However Shy Torque had a VIP on board, received very curt and unhelpful treatment from the radio operator (an ex-flying instructor at Waltham) and even though I was very apologetic to the pilot and his passenger, Waltham has lost potentially a few hundred pounds a year in landing fees, and suffered damage to its reputation. The pilot chose Waltham to land at as it was the nearest public facility to Windsor Castle, an occasional inhabitant of which the passenger was meeting.
In a service organisation, such as Waltham, there is no room for turning people away, making them feel trivial or not offering to help as much as possible. The problem is that there is no real service training except on the job. Many people are warm towards those they know, but exhibit more hostility or suspicion towards those they don't - I've noticed this to be a general human trait, and not one exclusive to ex flying instructors. Given the observations of nondom here, though, it may be that the management at Waltham would find it useful to spend more time on training and motivating their employees to provide consistent good service.
I remember talking to Shy Torque before his departure, and he revealed the extent of the poor service he received. It was the sort of service which eHarding and Gorilla would find nothing wrong with, because they are using the club as a social facility, and would think nothing of traipsing though longish wet grass. However Shy Torque had a VIP on board, received very curt and unhelpful treatment from the radio operator (an ex-flying instructor at Waltham) and even though I was very apologetic to the pilot and his passenger, Waltham has lost potentially a few hundred pounds a year in landing fees, and suffered damage to its reputation. The pilot chose Waltham to land at as it was the nearest public facility to Windsor Castle, an occasional inhabitant of which the passenger was meeting.
In a service organisation, such as Waltham, there is no room for turning people away, making them feel trivial or not offering to help as much as possible. The problem is that there is no real service training except on the job. Many people are warm towards those they know, but exhibit more hostility or suspicion towards those they don't - I've noticed this to be a general human trait, and not one exclusive to ex flying instructors. Given the observations of nondom here, though, it may be that the management at Waltham would find it useful to spend more time on training and motivating their employees to provide consistent good service.
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As a yardstick I use the car rental biz. You go to Hertz, Sixt, Europcar etc to rent a motor for the weekend. You go to Waltham, Denham, Elstree, Goodwood etc to rent a motor with wings for a few hours.
The requirement is nearly the same. Good price, good car (plane) good service.
Already, differences are coming to mind. Even the worst airport car rental office is better than many aero club ops rooms. Prices? Cost plus or what the market will stand?
Good service? Hhmmm. I'll leave that for you, dear reader, to reflect on.
I'm not even going to duck!
Sir George Cayley
The requirement is nearly the same. Good price, good car (plane) good service.
Already, differences are coming to mind. Even the worst airport car rental office is better than many aero club ops rooms. Prices? Cost plus or what the market will stand?
Good service? Hhmmm. I'll leave that for you, dear reader, to reflect on.
I'm not even going to duck!
Sir George Cayley
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Blimey some folk take themselves too seriously. The shoulder boards thing is merely banter.
nondom, your remarks are rather scathing. There always has been a reasonable turn over of staff at EGLM. The senior managers are usually the only ones to stay for any length of time. When asked most ex-donglers (ex-ground crew to the uninitiated) look back fondly on their time at Waltham. Pay isn't great for sure, but most reflect on the experiences enjoyed. The turn over of staff also means there are a few new faces to get to know every so often. It's a good apprenticeship!!
I don't think you can compare the VIP facilities at EGLM to the likes of Biggin or Luton, totally different airfields. Waltham is all-grass with a lovely atmosphere.
It seems you have to point out the bleedin' obvious to folk sometimes... Grief!!
nondom, your remarks are rather scathing. There always has been a reasonable turn over of staff at EGLM. The senior managers are usually the only ones to stay for any length of time. When asked most ex-donglers (ex-ground crew to the uninitiated) look back fondly on their time at Waltham. Pay isn't great for sure, but most reflect on the experiences enjoyed. The turn over of staff also means there are a few new faces to get to know every so often. It's a good apprenticeship!!
I don't think you can compare the VIP facilities at EGLM to the likes of Biggin or Luton, totally different airfields. Waltham is all-grass with a lovely atmosphere.
It seems you have to point out the bleedin' obvious to folk sometimes... Grief!!
Pompus flying clubs
We dont have all that B... S....t down here in Cornwall you can :- Fly Drive Walk Bike Swim Crawl and Parachute into most of our places and at Perranporth there will always be a mixture of most of those at any one time with great food and spectacular scenery.
It amazes me how aviation in this country shoots itself in the foot when it comes to hospitality to those with a common interest.
There should be more places like "Dillows" at Biggin remember that !!!!
Old Sarum is OK.
It amazes me how aviation in this country shoots itself in the foot when it comes to hospitality to those with a common interest.
There should be more places like "Dillows" at Biggin remember that !!!!
Old Sarum is OK.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Pompus?? I assume you mean pompous!
Clearly I have never met you at Waltham!!! I set off from Waltham to Perranporth once. Got halfway there and couldn't be arsed, went to Sandown instead. Really wasn't that desperate for a pastie. That's the good thing about Waltham, it's close to where I live. The food is good and the banter... Well, c'mon guys I'm still waiting!!!
Dillows? You're having a laugh aren't you??
Clearly I have never met you at Waltham!!! I set off from Waltham to Perranporth once. Got halfway there and couldn't be arsed, went to Sandown instead. Really wasn't that desperate for a pastie. That's the good thing about Waltham, it's close to where I live. The food is good and the banter... Well, c'mon guys I'm still waiting!!!
Dillows? You're having a laugh aren't you??
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Join Date: Jun 2003
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It wasn't a case of you not being arsed, it was a case of you being in the Cub, and geological processes.
The Cub took so long to get from Waltham to Perranporth (induced drag being a massive factor), continental drift had moved Sandown to where Perranporth had been when you started out.