NPPL re-val by experience.....
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NPPL re-val by experience.....
Apologies if this has been well covered before but.....
Does the "one hour with an instructor" within the validity period have to be ONE single flight of (at least) one hour or (as I read somewhere) can it be two or more flights totalling at least one hour?? For example a couple of Club check flights?
Note this is for NPPL SEP not JAR - PPL
Thanks
Does the "one hour with an instructor" within the validity period have to be ONE single flight of (at least) one hour or (as I read somewhere) can it be two or more flights totalling at least one hour?? For example a couple of Club check flights?
Note this is for NPPL SEP not JAR - PPL
Thanks
If you haven't yet revalidated onto the revised NPPL SSEA Class Rating system, you have only 5 days left to do so. After that you will require a renewal GST.
Under the former 'rolling validity' scheme, part of the requirement was to fly at least one training flight with an instructor of at least 1 hr duration in the previous 12 months prior to the date of flight.
Once you are on the new scheme, you may complete an accumulated 1 hour of training flying within the 24 months of the rating validity period. How and when is up to you.
I repeat, if you haven't already revalidated onto the revised scheme, the transition period in which you may do so expires at the end of 30 June 2009.
Under the former 'rolling validity' scheme, part of the requirement was to fly at least one training flight with an instructor of at least 1 hr duration in the previous 12 months prior to the date of flight.
Once you are on the new scheme, you may complete an accumulated 1 hour of training flying within the 24 months of the rating validity period. How and when is up to you.
I repeat, if you haven't already revalidated onto the revised scheme, the transition period in which you may do so expires at the end of 30 June 2009.
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OK Beagle thanks for that.
I re-validated by experience back in Dec 08 for 24 months and have already had a check flight of 0.7 hour - and have another due next month - hence my question.
I re-validated by experience back in Dec 08 for 24 months and have already had a check flight of 0.7 hour - and have another due next month - hence my question.
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Ok here goes, in plain English....the old 13 month NPPL SSEA validation by experience will no longer apply by 29th June 2009. You need to have in your LICENCE a revalidation page(fcl150) which will have a VALID TOO column. Provided you have the required hours an Examiner can sign this page for the new 24 month period, after which you will have to do a Bi-annual check flight. IF you do not have the hours, you will have to do a BFR check, before the 29th JUNE 2009 to revalidate your licence.I have copied below from the LAA web site.
ATTENTION NPPL HOLDERS.
(Nothing in this announcement is meant to contradict relevant sections of the Air Navigation Order or the AIC issued on the topic, which of course, take
precedence.)
From July 1st 2009, to be legal as pilot in command using an NPPL, the relevant rating in your NPPL needs to have a specific future expiry date associated with it, with the entry in your licence signed by an examiner or the CAA.
This should not be a problem for microlight or SLMG pilots who have been on such a scheme of a 'fixed future expiry date' from the start but it could be a real legality issue after the end of this month for 'SSEA' rated pilots unless they check and take appropriate action if necessary. Some will not need to, having already complied with the requirement, but many will need to take action before the end of this month.
Most pilots with NPPL SSEA ratings have in the past been subject to a self-certifying 'rolling validity' scheme and until recently have not been forced to see an examiner to have a specific future 'expiry date' for the SSEA rating written in their licences.This situation has now changed. The issue is further complicated by early NPPLs being issued with 'SEP' ratings before an AIC, issued in 2004, admitted that these should have been called 'SSEA' and should be treated as such.
Every NPPL holder is advised to check their NPPL's rating page. If you find you have either an SSEA rating, or an SEP rating, and it does NOT have a specific future date mentioned in the EXPIRY column, then you need to take immediate action BEFORE the end of this month or you will not have the legal right to fly as pilot in command until you undergo a flight test to regain the rating concerned. Until the end of this month, current pilots without a specific future expiry date written against the rating have the opportunity to resolve this and avoid a flight test with a mere paperwork exercise.
If you find your licence has either an SSEA or SEP rating without a definite future date in the expiry column, you need to see an examiner (all LAA coaches are 'R' examiners for example) before the end of June 2009, and, providing you are current under the old scheme of validity, you will be given an expiry date of 2 years hence.
Hope this helps.
Once you have ratings with definite future expiry dates, you can start counting your flying hours towards a future revalidation based on the new rules detailed in AIC 30/2008 http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/aic/white/EG_Circ_2008_W_030_en.pdf
ATTENTION NPPL HOLDERS.
(Nothing in this announcement is meant to contradict relevant sections of the Air Navigation Order or the AIC issued on the topic, which of course, take
precedence.)
From July 1st 2009, to be legal as pilot in command using an NPPL, the relevant rating in your NPPL needs to have a specific future expiry date associated with it, with the entry in your licence signed by an examiner or the CAA.
This should not be a problem for microlight or SLMG pilots who have been on such a scheme of a 'fixed future expiry date' from the start but it could be a real legality issue after the end of this month for 'SSEA' rated pilots unless they check and take appropriate action if necessary. Some will not need to, having already complied with the requirement, but many will need to take action before the end of this month.
Most pilots with NPPL SSEA ratings have in the past been subject to a self-certifying 'rolling validity' scheme and until recently have not been forced to see an examiner to have a specific future 'expiry date' for the SSEA rating written in their licences.This situation has now changed. The issue is further complicated by early NPPLs being issued with 'SEP' ratings before an AIC, issued in 2004, admitted that these should have been called 'SSEA' and should be treated as such.
Every NPPL holder is advised to check their NPPL's rating page. If you find you have either an SSEA rating, or an SEP rating, and it does NOT have a specific future date mentioned in the EXPIRY column, then you need to take immediate action BEFORE the end of this month or you will not have the legal right to fly as pilot in command until you undergo a flight test to regain the rating concerned. Until the end of this month, current pilots without a specific future expiry date written against the rating have the opportunity to resolve this and avoid a flight test with a mere paperwork exercise.
If you find your licence has either an SSEA or SEP rating without a definite future date in the expiry column, you need to see an examiner (all LAA coaches are 'R' examiners for example) before the end of June 2009, and, providing you are current under the old scheme of validity, you will be given an expiry date of 2 years hence.
Hope this helps.
Once you have ratings with definite future expiry dates, you can start counting your flying hours towards a future revalidation based on the new rules detailed in AIC 30/2008 http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/aic/white/EG_Circ_2008_W_030_en.pdf
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Sub note.
JAR PPL SEP/SLMG/TMG 24 month validation
UK NPPL SSEA/SEP/SLMG 24 month validation
PPL A(pre 1996) can still be 13 month validation for SLMG, SEP is 24 month validation.
The bi-annual flight check can cover both SEP/TMG i.e one flight check, but not SLMG which is a seperate rating.
JAR PPL SEP/SLMG/TMG 24 month validation
UK NPPL SSEA/SEP/SLMG 24 month validation
PPL A(pre 1996) can still be 13 month validation for SLMG, SEP is 24 month validation.
The bi-annual flight check can cover both SEP/TMG i.e one flight check, but not SLMG which is a seperate rating.
will5023, please do not post such inaccurate statements!
There was never a '13 month SSEA revalidation by experience' - the original SSEA revalidation was a 'rolling validity' requirement. This ceases after 30 Jun 2009.
No. You need to revalidate onto the new system before the end of 30 Jun 2009. There is no such thing as a 'bi-annual check flight'. Revalidation under the new system is either by experience or by GST with an Examiner.
Again, there is no such thing as a 'BFR check'. If you cannot revalidate by experience, you must revalidate by GST with an Examiner or, if you cannot achieve this by the end of 30 Jun 2009, you must renew your SSEA Class Rating by flying a renewal GST with an Examiner.
All this is no secret - it was announced in an AIC over a year ago. If you haven't checked AICs for over 12 months, you shouldn't expect much sympathy.
Only old-style UK PPL (SLMG) or UK PPL (Microlight) holders may elect to remain under 13 month revalidation criteria. SEP Class Rating requirements are in accordance with JAR-FCL and there is no change. The same applies to TMG Class Ratings. Consolidated revalidation criteria for pilots who hold both JAR-FCL SEP and TMG Class Ratings remains as before. Again, there is no 'bi-annual flight check' under JAR-FCL, there is a requirement for an hour of training flying with an authorised instructor.
Pilots who hold SEP Class Ratings and who have completed differences training for SLMG and/or Microlights may maintain privileges on such classes provided that they maintain the validity of their SEP Class Ratings. However, if someone really wants a standalone SLMG Class Rating on a UK-issued non-NPPL, then they would need to maintain the validity of that Rating....
In summary, whilst your post might have seemed helpful, it is riddled with inaccuracy and will only serve to spread confusion.
All NPPL holders should ensure that they have read and understood AIC 30/2008 (Whire 146). It's only been in existence since 24 April 2008...
Ok here goes, in plain English....the old 13 month NPPL SSEA validation by experience will no longer apply by 29th June 2009. You need to have in your LICENCE a revalidation page(fcl150) which will have a VALID TOO column. Provided you have the required hours an Examiner can sign this page for the new 24 month period, after which you will have to do a Bi-annual check flight. IF you do not have the hours, you will have to do a BFR check, before the 29th JUNE 2009 to revalidate your licence.I have copied below from the LAA web site.
Provided you have the required hours an Examiner can sign this page for the new 24 month period, after which you will have to do a Bi-annual check flight.
IF you do not have the hours, you will have to do a BFR check, before the 29th JUNE 2009 to revalidate your licence.
All this is no secret - it was announced in an AIC over a year ago. If you haven't checked AICs for over 12 months, you shouldn't expect much sympathy.
PPL A(pre 1996) can still be 13 month validation for SLMG, SEP is 24 month validation.
The bi-annual flight check can cover both SEP/TMG i.e one flight check, but not SLMG which is a seperate rating.
The bi-annual flight check can cover both SEP/TMG i.e one flight check, but not SLMG which is a seperate rating.
Pilots who hold SEP Class Ratings and who have completed differences training for SLMG and/or Microlights may maintain privileges on such classes provided that they maintain the validity of their SEP Class Ratings. However, if someone really wants a standalone SLMG Class Rating on a UK-issued non-NPPL, then they would need to maintain the validity of that Rating....
In summary, whilst your post might have seemed helpful, it is riddled with inaccuracy and will only serve to spread confusion.
All NPPL holders should ensure that they have read and understood AIC 30/2008 (Whire 146). It's only been in existence since 24 April 2008...
Last edited by BEagle; 25th Jun 2009 at 21:36.
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BEagle. Thanks for that, I have recently had 1 hr with an instructor who duly signed my licence as "valid until 7/6/2011" Please clarify "Examiner / Instructor" Does the "Examiner" have to be an Examiner or just a bog standard FI? Cos I only have 5 days to put it right.
Certificates of Revalidation may only be signed by Examiners. So yes, the FI's error needs to be corrected before the end of 30 Jun 2009.
Why on earth did an FI who is not an Examiner think he was empowered to sign Rating revlidations in pilot licences?
You should not be expected to pay for an Examiner to sign your Certificate of Revalidation - name and shame if you are!
Why on earth did an FI who is not an Examiner think he was empowered to sign Rating revlidations in pilot licences?
You should not be expected to pay for an Examiner to sign your Certificate of Revalidation - name and shame if you are!
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Some confusion at my local club I think, Thanks for the clear up I now need to panic a bit.
With the 1 hr "instructor" in the log book is this just a paper job or do I have to fly with an Examiner?
Licence was first issued July 07.
With the 1 hr "instructor" in the log book is this just a paper job or do I have to fly with an Examiner?
Licence was first issued July 07.
It's merely a paperwork exercise if your SSEA Class Rating is currently valid - you do NOT need to fly with an Examiner, just get him/her to sign the Certificate of Revalidation in your licence. Which should be free of any charge.
The Examiner does NOT need to send any paperwork to the CAA after signing your Certificate of Revalidation.
The Examiner does NOT need to send any paperwork to the CAA after signing your Certificate of Revalidation.
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Thank you BEagle, This will be attended to.
As a point of interest, in case this still remains tits up, the instructor hour was in my a/c with a tailwheel, the instructor has not flown a tailwheel a/c. Problem??
As a point of interest, in case this still remains tits up, the instructor hour was in my a/c with a tailwheel, the instructor has not flown a tailwheel a/c. Problem??
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The way I was told is, the pilot/PUT agrees with the instructor what the training flight will consist of ie: PFL, stall practice, general handling/spin recovery/avoidance, zone transit radio procedures, navigation, etc. If the pilot wanted an hour on touch & go practice into a short grass strip in a tailwheel a/c then a suitably qualified instructor would be required.
The main thing here is that the content of the training flight is up to the pilot not the instructor. In this case I opted to let the instructor decide, general handling, PFL, stall etc.
The main thing here is that the content of the training flight is up to the pilot not the instructor. In this case I opted to let the instructor decide, general handling, PFL, stall etc.
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Having said that I take your point PIC = Captain/qualified to fly that a/c. But this is an instructional flight with an already qualified pilot who (should) not require "training". as opposed to a training flight where the instructor may be required to take control due to the student's incompetence.
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Anytime an Instructor is giving Instruction, he is the Pilot In Command. To be Pilot in Command he must legally be able to be the commander. If he does not have tailwheel differences training then he can't be Pilot in Command.
Regardless of the fact that you were current on type, you were using the flight as an Instructional flight towards the revalidation requirements and as such should have been PUT. BUT as the Instructor was not legally allowed to be commander on the flight you did you were pilot in command and he was the passenger. As such the flight does not count towards your revalidation requirements.
Therefore you need to go and do a legal flight with and Instructor and have your logbook signed and then have an EXAMINER - Revalidation or above sign your licence.
Regardless of the fact that you were current on type, you were using the flight as an Instructional flight towards the revalidation requirements and as such should have been PUT. BUT as the Instructor was not legally allowed to be commander on the flight you did you were pilot in command and he was the passenger. As such the flight does not count towards your revalidation requirements.
Therefore you need to go and do a legal flight with and Instructor and have your logbook signed and then have an EXAMINER - Revalidation or above sign your licence.
The whole purpose of the mandatory flight is training. The FI must be qualified to act as Commander; for a tailwheel aeroplane, this requires that the FI has completed tailwheel differences training and has 'TW' annotated in his personal log book upon completing that training. JAR 1.215 Appendix 1.
It sounds to me that your FI needs to look at the books.....
Meanwhile, you will need to fly with another FI who is qualified to fly tailwheel aeroplanes and then find an Examiner to revalidate your SSEA Class Rating onto the new system before the end of 30 Jun 2009.
bose-x....snap! You beat me to it!!
It sounds to me that your FI needs to look at the books.....
Meanwhile, you will need to fly with another FI who is qualified to fly tailwheel aeroplanes and then find an Examiner to revalidate your SSEA Class Rating onto the new system before the end of 30 Jun 2009.
bose-x....snap! You beat me to it!!
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BEagle wrote:
"You should not be expected to pay for an Examiner to sign your Certificate of Revalidation .... it is merely a paperwork exercise."
So are my accounts, yet my accountant charges me plenty!
Perhaps, given the complexity of this - as shown by the range of misunderstandings exhibited here and elsewhere - examiners should charge.
Their expertise - and time spent digesting all the ramifications of this (just think of the single-seat only endorsement on microlights that can be really useful if someone hasn't managed to do their full hour before the two years is up) - is surely worth something.
And, of course, there is a fee to be paid to the CAA to be an examiner. How does an examiner earn that back? Not from the one hour's flying if done with another instructor/s!
"You should not be expected to pay for an Examiner to sign your Certificate of Revalidation .... it is merely a paperwork exercise."
So are my accounts, yet my accountant charges me plenty!
Perhaps, given the complexity of this - as shown by the range of misunderstandings exhibited here and elsewhere - examiners should charge.
Their expertise - and time spent digesting all the ramifications of this (just think of the single-seat only endorsement on microlights that can be really useful if someone hasn't managed to do their full hour before the two years is up) - is surely worth something.
And, of course, there is a fee to be paid to the CAA to be an examiner. How does an examiner earn that back? Not from the one hour's flying if done with another instructor/s!